Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance


  • Pitcrew

    @Meg said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    Like always, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. @Warma-Sheen may be overly critical and the complaint is silly, but now might be a good time for @Mercutio to take a hard look at power balances in spheres and transparency with staff, too. Maybe there's nothing to look at! But hey, never hurts to do it.

    A fair and reasoned approach. Constructive even.


  • Coder

    @Meg said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    Like always, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. @Warma-Sheen may be overly critical and the complaint is silly, but now might be a good time for @Mercutio to take a hard look at power balances in spheres and transparency with staff, too. Maybe there's nothing to look at! But hey, never hurts to do it.

    It's certainly a concern at all times. Though we don't have 'spheres' as much as 'factions' around, the power balance across factions is, by design, very disjointed. There are some powerful characters in smaller groups that by themselves have far fewer resources - and we have lower level characters in large organizations (The Empire) who thus have far more resources to them. In a way, each has their own playstyle - as is inherent to this era we are approaching. But you get odd encounters in PvP situations. Example: when the Inquisition comes across powerful and well established higher level characters.

    I'm actually commonly surprised in a positive manner, as the Inquisition members take these as opportunities to make it into long term missions, or plan around things instead of running at he wall head-first. Even if PvP is rare, they take it as character growth.

    In regards to disjointed power, we have the obvious:
    The Empire has overwhelming force, but can be slower to move on things, and tend to use hard-handed approaches on things.
    The Rebellion has little in the way of Force, but is quick to get in and out to perform small strikes. Sometimes they have higher level characters. Sometimes lower level characters.
    The Independents, for the most part, are a wild card of varying power. Their influence is adjusted by their own actions, and who they ally with.

    In regards to the idea of older characters having more power - this is indeed the case. But there is a hard level cap. And while there are side-upgrade options, the costs climb heavily after a certain point. It's not perfect, but not the worst as a system. It's something we watch.


    Transparency with staff is harder to define or even comment on, as I am uncertain in what way that word is being used in this instance.



  • @Mercutio said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    In regards to the idea of older characters having more power - this is indeed the case. But there is a hard level cap. And while there are side-upgrade options, the costs climb heavily after a certain point. It's not perfect, but not the worst as a system. It's something we watch.

    @Mercutio said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    Transparency with staff is harder to define or even comment on, as I am uncertain in what way that word is being used in this instance.

    Ok, but like, how many of those older characters who have hit level cap but have a shitton of side-upgrade options are in the hands of staff? That's what I'm talking about looking at, and what I am talking about re: transparency.

    I mean, I am glad you guys know your factions (spheres. potatoes. whatever you want to call them, really) but knowing who is getting all the cool stuff and getting to do the cool things is important, too. I'm not here to tell you how to run your game, but if all staff have really old characters with a lot of influence because of the things that they have, you can bet it's going to make your game less appealing to people.


  • Coder

    @Meg said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    @Mercutio said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    In regards to the idea of older characters having more power - this is indeed the case. But there is a hard level cap. And while there are side-upgrade options, the costs climb heavily after a certain point. It's not perfect, but not the worst as a system. It's something we watch.

    @Mercutio said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    Transparency with staff is harder to define or even comment on, as I am uncertain in what way that word is being used in this instance.

    Ok, but like, how many of those older characters who have hit level cap but have a shitton of side-upgrade options are in the hands of staff? That's what I'm talking about looking at, and what I am talking about re: transparency.

    I mean, I am glad you guys know your factions (spheres. potatoes. whatever you want to call them, really) but knowing who is getting all the cool stuff and getting to do the cool things is important, too. I'm not here to tell you how to run your game, but if all staff have really old characters with a lot of influence because of the things that they have, you can bet it's going to make your game less appealing to people.

    Gotcha. Soft Level cap (level 12) has - ignoring NPCs - 13 players. Of which 3 are admin characters due to long-term play. We track the side-upgrades as well in sheet notes - of which Risi likely has the largest sum, but I don't think the top 5 contains further staff characters. There are 3 characters with a level above the soft level cap, a sum that contains 1 admin played character (Risi, who was the third one to get there), and no characters at the hard level cap (14).

    We watch the cool stuff, and the levels, and the influence. Though, of all the admin characters, Risi is the only one with notable 'influence', and it's not even a lot. She's just an indie. No direct influence in any of the major organizations (Empire, Rebellion, or the crumbling Republic).



  • @Mercutio Cool, cool. And may I say! I think you did very well representing your game with these posts. I'm certainly not here to tell you how to run it (just judge it, since that is what MSB is for), but it does seem that you have a firm hand on the pulse of where the power balances lie in your game. It speaks p highly for you as a Staffer and the game as a whole.


  • Pitcrew

    Re: transparency --

    I can also say that's it's also absolutely not a secret who the staff characters are. Like, at all. Not only because they're not hush-hush about it, but frequently because they're running multiple scenes at a time and may be using a player login to run something while doing a bigger scene on their staff bit. And not in a "my PC is involved in this plot" way but an "I have multiple windows open and don't want to get posts/rolls/pages from scenes confused" kind of way. So, like... it'd be pretty obvious to the whole effing game if @Mercutio or other staffers had a character who was The Most Important Ever!!!! in every group. We all know which characters are theirs and can read posted logs -- a requirement if you want the extra XP for plots -- if we really want to.


  • TV & Movies

    @Faceless said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    @Warma-Sheen I think you're being a bit more critical than is necessary. Honestly it comes off as though you feel wronged by the current staffers, for the actions of past staffers.

    I could very well be more critical than is necessary. I can admit that. Maybe it just feels more personal to me because it is me. I know that's a thing. But my experience and opinions about Mercutio have nothing to do with previous staff. Everyone's accountable for their own stuff. Myself, included.

    @Mercutio I really find it hard to believe that the "interpretation" was a misunderstanding. But if you say it was, then there's no point in trying to argue. You know your intentions better than I would. If you're not doing the same things I experienced anymore and other people aren't experiencing the same issues, then great. I love Star Wars and more places to play, the better. But everyone has to decide for themselves and no one reading can say they weren't warned if your song remains the same.


  • Coder

    @Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    @Faceless said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    @Warma-Sheen I think you're being a bit more critical than is necessary. Honestly it comes off as though you feel wronged by the current staffers, for the actions of past staffers.

    I could very well be more critical than is necessary. I can admit that. Maybe it just feels more personal to me because it is me. I know that's a thing. But my experience and opinions about Mercutio have nothing to do with previous staff. Everyone's accountable for their own stuff. Myself, included.

    @Mercutio I really find it hard to believe that the "interpretation" was a misunderstanding. But if you say it was, then there's no point in trying to argue. You know your intentions better than I would. If you're not doing the same things I experienced anymore and other people aren't experiencing the same issues, then great. I love Star Wars and more places to play, the better. But everyone has to decide for themselves and no one reading can say they weren't warned if your song remains the same.

    No hard feelings man. I understand that experiences can color one's future ones.


  • Politics

    @Mercutio said in Star Wars: Dawn of Defiance:

    In regards to the idea of older characters having more power - this is indeed the case. But there is a hard level cap. And while there are side-upgrade options, the costs climb heavily after a certain point. It's not perfect, but not the worst as a system. It's something we watch.

    It's good to know that you're watching this, but I don't think it helps, really.

    I think the game has run into a typical problem: over-dinosauring. No one's done anything wrong intentionally, or even unintentionally. Lots of games, however, reach an end cycle where several PCs have hit some sort of level cap, but continue on because, so the theory goes, new players will eventually reach the same level if they devote the same amount of time to the game. My understanding is that some of the PCs on DoD are 3 years old or older.

    This is an eternity for many gamers. Sure, other players can get to where the oldbies are, but who wants to wait until then? I have no interest in being a side-character for someone else's story, or playing the plucky sidekick for three years or more. As a player, I want to play with peers in power, even if not in title.

    I played on this game with a troupe of others, and we had a good, but limited run on the game. Staff was helpful, given that we were WoD'ers, but, in the end, I felt like a subordinate speck in a large game that had either reached its end game or had passed me by. This may not have been the case, but this was the impression I got from sifting through the Wikis and listening to channel chat.


  • Coder

    It didn't help that the center point to your group disappeared into the Ether. It's a real shame. We really liked you bunch. I understand where you are coming from though. I remember when I started there with my little level 5 character amongst people well established and more powerful than my character.

    I ended up leaning into that, however, using RP to form connections, using it as a way to set goals and what-not. But that is, in the end, but one playstyle. Everyone plays the game in different ways. It is a typical problem, I agree. Over-dinosauring, that is. Of course, there's always characters of established players who are closer to the starting levels. But it's never a perfect situation.



  • @Mercutio @Ganymede

    I apologize for vanishing.

    I left the the hobby altogether. I was waiting for burnout to fade before diving back in, and it never did. Not for a year, anyway.

    All of you in NEXT deserved better, and I am sorry I left you adrift.

    On-topic: the limitations of a mature game are real, and finding a meaningful-feeling niche can be difficult.

    The bottom line for me is that Trakata and Malacia were even-handed staffers.

    I shared the worries others had when they were elevated to wizard. Giving greater authority to already-important PCs can be a terrible mistake, but those fears haven't been born out by my experience. The game isn't their playground. They're working to do right by their players.

    I recommend trying Dawn of Defiance out to see if it's a fit for you.


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