Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game



  • @Enarei If you read those logs, then you would know that said player was not repeatedly asked to stop anything by staff and players. They were "complained" about in secret to staff. Which has never been documented for any of us to see. On the other hand, we do, in fact, have clear and open logs of the staff dragging a number of players into a room to admit that they were outright spying on a player and were banning them for something that was paged to players that they were friends with.

    So please. Just stop. You're not doing yourself, or your game, because yes, obvious staffer/cronie is obvious, any favors.


  • Pitcrew

    @Enarei Staff admitted they never talked to her directly about her behavior as a warning. Like, they are the ones who said that. Who you fightin



  • @kanye-qwest said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    Who you fightin

    The hivemind witch-hunters, lol.



  • It would appear I've been sitebanned from UH.

    I'd connect occasionally to touch bases with a friend or two or look up the latest +bbposts, but I never started anything on channels or stuff like that. I left the game quietly last month as well, no big bbpost or anything like that. When I tried connecting a little while ago it just went straight back to a disconnect on my laptop and tablet.

    Seems they really can't handle anyone exposing their BS for what it is.

    Claremont? Good luck keeping your precious numbers and activity up. You're going to need it. People can already see the nosedive the place has taken over the past month, and if you guys keep acting the way you have as admin, it will only get worse.



  • @wolfs Really? That seems silly as shit. What are they hoping to do with that, stop people posting their bbposts? Because, uh, there's a whole forum here of people that can log in at any time and look.

    But again, nothing about this situation has ever struck me as staff knows at all what they are doing.



  • @meg What's more, I only connected as a guest bit and would run a couple commands then hop back off. They must be truly paranoid to go to a siteban over that, and it makes me wonder what they were checking to come to that decision.

    Like you said, it's not as if people can't log in and see whatever kind of spin they're trying to pass off as fact.

    They're corrupt as hell there.

    (I should add that the ban doesn't really affect me. I was never going to go back to playing there in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hoping whoever they banned would say something here that confirmed it. This just shows how little they can handle criticism of any kind, how in denial they are about the problems they've helped create for themselves.)



  • Yeah so for the record, my interactions with staff prior to that day were:

    Getting sleazed on by Claremont,
    Thanking Darwin for a giant post he did when I triggered a Wildstorm trend,
    Reporting Ruby for being a lunatic

    As a reminder, Megan Gwynn apparently has an entire thread devoted to them somewhere here, assuming that's Gwynn and not just Liu


  • Pitcrew

    Moving posts by hand sucks, y'all.
    Some might have ended up in the other thread, but I'm sure we'll all survive.

    This thread is back in Mildly Constructive. Let's keep it above the waist, please.



  • I had my own problems with things there. I'd rather not go into detail as it's in the past and I'd like for it to remain so, but I will say that I am glad I left when I did and that the couple of times I had attempted to return were short lived. Like many games that wind up being shi tstorms, this game had a lot of potential. Too bad staff had to go and ruin it.


  • Pitcrew

    @Claremont

    So I've mostly held off here, and read, and chatted to folks on and off the game. I'm not directly involved in any of the ongoing shenanigans, save that I have at least one good friend (Jean/Phase Face) who left in the catalyzing incident, and several more who stayed, and kept me on despite misgivings.

    Here's the thing, most are gone or on the way out now. I'm going to try to explain why, without vitriol, I feel this is happening, because you guys set up a great game that avoided many pitfalls of comic games, and fan adaptation in general, and the progression of events saddens me.

    First off let me state the unpopular opinion: I don't think anyone is a villain here (except quite probably Ditko, who needs, at the least, to seriously look inward before continuing this cycle), and I don't think blame outside Ditko is easy to fairly assign. I for one feel snooping when harassment is accused is one of the only ways to be 100%, and I get why Illyana was set suspect. Here's the thing though...

    If you listen to nothing else I say, hear this: As staff, appearances can be as vital as reality. From logs and my perspective, what you found on Illyana was not that she was badgering other players, but that she didn't like you guys and your policies much. Then, people were hurt, and reacted. I get that allegedly people she was venting to complained, but none of that was transparent, and I reiterate: Appearance is key in PR, which is at the end of the day also how one defines and maintains admin trust. Which brings us to...

    From there what seems to have ensued is a spiral of hurt feelings and reactivity, coupled with a fierce, typical, and frankly understandable desire to believe a pal and partner of at least several of you couldn't be acting out so nastily. You guys post about transparency while doing error prone surgery to the mailboxes of -everyone- on the game. Read that last sentence again, and if it doesn't seem fucked up, keep repeating this step.

    You tacitly or directly endorse the blame and slander of those who left, and I get that too, past the kneejerk offense. It's natural, from one perspective, it's what is being done to staff. It also looks horrible, and alienates everyone left who doesn't hate those guys. It makes it look like a volatile cover up; and not a well executed or smooth one either. Time and again substantial passagg seeps into responses on and off game from you and Ruby. Appearances are everything. Trust is everything.

    The obvious to everyone decline in logins, activity, -creativity- on UH is met with denial, one step from putting fingers in the ears and singing lalalala really loud. This gives no one who stuck with it the impression you mean to steer clear of the reef. You guys lost a solid handful including key players. Own it, fix it. Appearances are everything. Learning is everything.

    Last time I was Director of a game, over a decade ago now I think, I did some of the same shit. I was reactive, I was proud of my numbers, I gave myself more credit than I was due and I drove my game into a ditch that someone else who loved the place hauled it out of. I say none of the above with anger or judgement. Again, every step of the way, it's almost tragic the lack of honest transparency, communication, and trust. A thing which was not one sided, and is frankly super understandable on both ends with how it all blew up.

    You did a big thing badly, no matter how strong the good intentions. Stop being bitter and step out of the stinging resentment and honestly look at all the places this spiralled out when you could have acted differently, assertively without vitriol or frustration. You'll be a better staffer; you'll be a better person. Trust me.

    This goes, frankly, for just about anyone throwing shit in this clusterfuck. ... Except at Ditko.



  • Yeah. I feel like if @Claremont at any point wished to openly, honestly admit that Staff fucked up -- which includes own up to what was bad so that people know /he/ knows what went wrong and can learn from it -- then he could probably ask for a clean-slate, and because so many people actually did really like your game, they would give it to you.

    And then, as a game, you could work forward into something better.

    The first step, though, is being open and honest, none of which anyone on these boards has ever seen from you, @Claremont or @RoguePotato or anyone else, except @Vorpal.



  • @wolfs said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    What's more, I only connected as a guest bit and would run a couple commands then hop back off. They must be truly paranoid to go to a siteban over that, and it makes me wonder what they were checking to come to that decision.

    All guests are set suspect



  • I'm honestly not sure anyone left on staff can even see that they've acted poorly in any real way at this point. The level of denial I've seen, the attempts to hide things and cast fault in other directions tells me this.



  • @prototart It wouldn't surprise me at all if they had guests set Suspect now, like they think someone will come in trying to kill a game they're already doing a fine job of ruining. I also expect them to bring Ditko back on as a staffer under a different name at some point and think people won't figure it out.



  • They've been suspect for quite a while, like, since before all this started. A friend there reported being Jill'd and staff already knew about it, and which guest it'd been.



  • Also I can't find it now, but somebody said something about people I vented to complaining?

    I've only heard that super recently, and it screams of the same clumsy diversion tactic as "well that Emma wasn't even Ditko" - like, only thing I could think of that could possibly be in reference to is uh

    When Ditko decided he was gonna be Emma again and run all things X, I made a point of letting the X leaders know that Ditko wasn't well-liked, that women especially didn't trust him because he had a horrible rep, and that best case scenario was gonna be most of the academy characters and half the X-Men divorcing themselves from the groups and they needed to be prepared for it cus I didn't want it to come as a surprise. Like, instantly when he announced it the mood turned to "I want nothing to do with it/him"

    Scott Summers there apparently was buddies with everyone's favorite would-be sexual predator, so I can see that being what set everything in motion

    (Also, the "anytime somebody's told me to stop doing something I've stopped" comment was, like, "Illyana stop rambling" or "this should be on a channel" from a player. Like I said, I had basically zero interaction with staff until I was informed I was a cancer on the game)


  • Pitcrew

    @enarei said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    If Staff were harassing players were are those logs? It is not difficult to create a backlog, most programs it is just a single button, yet no backlogs of anything were shown were staff acted out of turn.

    What follows is a list of reasons why I, speaking only for myself, kept no logs.

    --I did not want to immortalize or memorialize how gross I was made to feel by the things you're acting like I'm somehow negligent for not keeping logs of.
    --The only purpose of logs would be to try to use them as evidence in some kind of proceeding. As I have said previously and at great length, I do not want to participate in any such proceeding, because the reward is never worth the risk. I cannot adequately describe how horrible it is to go through such a proceeding; the abuser is given the benefit of every real and imagined doubt, while the accuser is gaslighted, blamed for causing the situation through actions taken or imagined to have been taken, berated for causing a fuss, and penalized for not having been the perfect victim. I find such proceedings infinitely more traumatizing than the events leading up to them, and I won't participate in them.
    --Building off the last point, not only will I not participate in such proceedings in the best environments, I certainly won't participate in them in environments like United Heroes, in which staff had given sooooooo many indications they cannot listen.
    --There is no point to trying to change how people behave. They won't, ever, under any circumstance. If someone has to be told "I need you to respect me if we're to have a relationship," then he is either unwilling to or incapable of respecting you; I don't know that there's a meaningful difference between the two.

    You asked where the backlogs are, enarei. Now you know. Let me take this opportunity to tell you how super cool it is of you to dictate to me how I am supposed to respond to being harassed. It definitely doesn't reinforce any of the reasons why I don't bother keeping such logs.



  • In reference to the site bannings...

    There was a player who had a massive meltdown on public. Demanding staff protect her from people here. I did not see it, and I will not pester people with names or details. Demands that staff contact the FBI were made.

    I am no staff apologist. I can only imagine that a few bans were handed down in relation to that. I mean, liability management would dictate something happen.

    If they at least did something, well, they did what a lot of us have said they should. They listened and acted. If we want to pound on them over that? I cannot get behind that.

    What else can they do to protect a player from an unknown? I am not accusing staff or anyone of any wrong doing here. I can only imagine that something had to be done out of liability concerns. People are weird.

    Also Ditko left as a wizard. Still around.

    Finally, no victim shaming, but but what sort of proceedings are we talking about? If there is a log, you send it in. Log stands for itself. If you said. Stop, and it didn't stop, that is it.

    It's like having videotape, and not turning it to the police, then complaining about the cops not getting a conviction.

    As much as there was some messed up stuff going on here, that is crap. If people with axes to grind had actually done what is generally accepted, we would all know if the staff is what they say they are. Instead we all have questions, and what appeared to be a really stellar setup is now damaged.

    What I'm essentially saying is, it is growing very obvious that staff we're not the only people who messed this all up. This could have all been avoided if people had just done what they are supposed to do when they feel harassed; make a complaint, and submit a log.

    Instead we get turmoil and hurt feelings because someone is too afraid to just push the log button. That is crap. Call me out for victim shaming if you want. Regardless, a log is all that was needed.

    What seems like a huge blow up and horrible problem with the staff, really is just the same old crap that comes with this hobby. People being too lazy to do things the right way.

    I regret hating on some of this stuff like I did, because it just isn't fair. Requiring proof of accusation is not unreasonable, and suggesting otherwise is reprehensible.

    We can argue all day and night over a lot of the other things, but a great deal of those things would not have happened had people just turned in a log.



  • @inspectergadget said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    There was a player who had a massive meltdown on public. Demanding staff protect her from people here. I did not see it, and I will not pester people with names or details. Demands that staff contact the FBI were made.

    Between this and the Fallout:ED thread, I'm starting to wonder if there isn't someone who is doing some shit they shouldn't.

    I still strongly suspect this is needless paranoia (and Elsa lying), but there are a lot of lurkers, and there are shitty people who have been smacked for being shitty people around here I could see doing something like this as some form of retaliation.

    In other words, my inner Sicilian is starting to develop a case of the squints, because that's the second claim of this kind inside a week.


  • Pitcrew

    @surreality said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    @inspectergadget said in Fixing United Heroes- Too bad we cannot talk about it on the game:

    There was a player who had a massive meltdown on public. Demanding staff protect her from people here. I did not see it, and I will not pester people with names or details. Demands that staff contact the FBI were made.

    Between this and the Fallout:ED thread, I'm starting to wonder if there isn't someone who is doing some shit they shouldn't.

    I still strongly suspect this is needless paranoia (and Elsa lying), but there are a lot of lurkers, and there are shitty people who have been smacked for being shitty people around here I could see doing something like this as some form of retaliation.

    In other words, my inner Sicilian is starting to develop a case of the squints, because that's the second claim of this kind inside a week.

    But then, there was that chick in some of the pastebin logs who was regaling the game with tales of us 'sex shaming' and other baseless accusations. If it's her that had the meltdown (or her claims inspired it)...


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