Darkwater: The Return



  • As someone who hates Werewolf 1e I can attest that Werewolf 2e is great.


  • Politics

    @admiral said in Darkwater: The Return:

    As someone who hates Werewolf 1e I can attest that Werewolf 2e is great.

    True. Elodoth suck even worse in 2E.


  • Tutorialist

    @ganymede Oh, I know Lithium meant Werewolf 2E. And I'm not putting werewolf in. 1E or 2E into the game. I've a super violent DO NOT WANT reaction to it.

    I handed a group of players a rank 5 locus (because it was there pre them via story stuff from before when werewolf was opened), and they threw a fit at me that I wouldn't let them move the locus.

    The locus was the porch of a particularly bad house on Baker Street, and they wanted to dismantle the porch and take it to their pack house. When I said: Uh, that'll destroy the locus. They threw a goddamned tantrum.

    And then there was the non-stop innuendo and suggestion that all WB players were just there to be sex-toys on werewolf channel. That I, in my player bit, would ask people to stop. That I, in my staffbit, would ask people to stop. That I, as the game head, finally went to Tributary with complaints because people would not stop.

    I cannot remember a single thing about the implementation of werewolf on Darkwater (save for personal RP between my PC and another player's PC), that did not cause me stress or anger. I'm not doing it again. Even if 2E werewolf is a very different game.

    I'm not doing it again.


  • Coder

    @cobaltasaurus said in Darkwater: The Return:

    And then there was the non-stop innuendo and suggestion that all WB players were just there to be sex-toys on werewolf channel. That I, in my player bit, would ask people to stop. That I, in my staffbit, would ask people to stop. That I, as the game head, finally went to Tributary with complaints because people would not stop.

    I'm going to back her up on this, because I don't want to deal with the bad eggs that Werewolf attracted. We had a bad experience with Werewolf, and so we're not subjecting ourselves to that again. I should not have to police people like that.

    I really want to keep things simple, because the odds of @Cobaltasaurus deciding to convert to 2E Changeling are very high and the simpler things are, the better.


  • Coder

    @cobaltasaurus So you dealt with some bad apples and you tossed an entirely good sphere, but you want to add in the sphere that calls to bad apples like a neon death light calls to flying insects of the night?

    I am... not sure I understand your reasoning there.

    If that reaction to one group of Werewolves killed the whole sphere for you, I would beg/plead, do not add Mage.

    At all.

    It will be 1 billion times worse.



  • I've got no interest in playing a game that has Mage on it, but I'm probably in the minority. Ultimately the person who runs a game decides what will and won't be played there.


  • Pitcrew

    To each their own. I would much rather play on a 2E game with mage than with werewolf, though agree that in a multi sphere game Mage would need some sort of limiting factor (gnosis 3 or max 4 in arcaca or some such thing).

    But I also really dislike everything about werewolf expect the were and the wolf.


  • Pitcrew

    Mage? On Darkwater? In addition to Changeling?

    I'm out.

    Like I said recently to a group of friends, A multi sphere game is a trailer park and Mage is an F5 tornado. They don't mix. I say this as a person who loves 2e Mage. Loves it. Alone. By itself.


  • Coder

    @Cobaltasaurus I can get behind your not liking Werewolf, and if you don't want to include it, that is absolutely fine.

    It is also your choice if you want to add mage, it is your game.

    I just advise against it.


  • Tutorialist

    To be clear: I don’t have plans to add ANYTHING right now. Not mage, not werewolf, nada. Like my addendum said: that was two am Cobalt speaking.

    @Tributary is my SanCheck, and I’m pretty sure she’d veto Mage because like she mentioned she likes the simplicity we had.

    Frankly, the more I think about it the more I LIKE the simplicity we had. If I’m just doing changeling and mortal plots? That’s only one group of people (because mortals can be pulled in easily) to ST for. There’s no need to come up with multiple plots or keep different tracks up, etc.

    And while I think Darkwater: The Magening has great players... it was also single sphere.



  • I can't fault anyone for having a visceral NOPE reaction to any of the spheres.

    All of them have generic hot buttons, which in some cases is enough.

    Each also draws certain negative player types because of some of the themes involved, and the result is equivalent to a chemical reaction that is unique to that sphere and what those players can specifically do in that sphere in intolerable ways.

    (Example: The 'must do all the things' player, annoying as fuck normally. Completely intolerable in mage.)

    Nobody should get browbeaten into adding spheres they don't want to, full stop, whatever their reasons. It almost never leads to good things and it's not cool even if it was the best idea since sliced bread.


  • Politics

    @cobaltasaurus

    Well, I suppose that story goes back to what I said a month ago about how WoD players just seem perfectly happy to consistently shit in their own beds.


  • Coder

    @Cobaltasaurus Werewolf: The only game line that requires you to track coitus



  • @alzie Thankfully, not any more.

    Best between-versions thematic change ever.


  • Coder

    @cobaltasaurus said in Darkwater: The Return:

    @Tributary is my SanCheck, and I’m pretty sure she’d veto Mage because like she mentioned she likes the simplicity we had.

    I'm vetoing Mage. We're sticking with mortals and changelings. We're keeping it simple.


  • Politics

    @tributary

    We all know that this is the wise path, not because it is simplest but because changeling can sometimes be the complexiest.


  • Admin

    @tributary Any chance for Changeling 2.0 in the foreseeable future?


  • Pitcrew

    @arkandel just keep mind it's changed drastically from the playtest


  • Coder

    @arkandel said in Darkwater: The Return:

    @cobaltasaurus Something about Changeling 1.0 never grabbed my attention. If you guys move to 2.0 perhaps I'll make the leap.

    You're probably going to be disappointed. I'll save the reasons for the Chronicles of Darkness thread, or any potential CtL2e thread.

    edit: I should note that I'm not disappointed. You have to come into it fresh, though, else you'll start drawing parallels and then start hating everything and everyone.


  • Admin

    @thenomain said in Darkwater: The Return:

    @arkandel said in Darkwater: The Return:

    @cobaltasaurus Something about Changeling 1.0 never grabbed my attention. If you guys move to 2.0 perhaps I'll make the leap.

    You're probably going to be disappointed. I'll save the reasons for the Chronicles of Darkness thread, or any potential CtL2e thread.

    edit: I should note that I'm not disappointed. You have to come into it fresh, though, else you'll start drawing parallels and then start hating everything and everyone.

    I never disliked Changeling theme - in fact I was always fond of it, even though kind of from afar.

    I always disliked Changeling 1.0's mechanics. I found most Kiths boring and most contracts either very situational or plain niche, with most of the powers they granted unable to motivate me into working towards getting them. With Vampire, Werewolf or Mage I never had that issue; there was always something I saw that made me go "damn I need this, and I can base a concept off of having or pursuing this".

    I don't know where the current iteration of Changeling 2.0 is at now, but I'm hoping it can reverse that for me.