Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition


  • Coder

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Here's another example: In Buffy (and later Angel), Angel is a mean-ass vampire who regains his soul and becomes all mopey and remorseful. Spike is a mean-ass vampire who regains his soul and then shrugs about it gets on with life.

    I don't know why I'm doing this, but -- Spike getting his soul back made him batfucking crazy and deeply susceptible to the First Evil's manipulations. It tormented and haunted him.

    Spike getting chipped which is what he was for most of his 'quasi-good-guy' phase was Spike being tormented by not being able to hurt people until he learned he could hurt demons, so then yes, went on with his life hurting the hell out of demons.

    Things are a little weirder in Angel because it started out with Spike being kinda a ghost but this was only after him playing a pivotal role in a redemption arc which let him deal with the whole soul thing.

    This nerd nitpick is coming to you courtesy of Ixokai, who should really make @Sunny a buffy game.


  • Pitcrew

    @ixokai

    Yes, you should. :D


  • Pitcrew

    I want to play a buffy game!



  • @ixokai said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    This nerd nitpick is coming to you courtesy of Ixokai, who should really make @Sunny a buffy game.

    Dangling a Buffy game in front of us is really just cruel and unusual punishment at this point.



  • Truly.


  • Coder

    Where did I read that Joss Whedon was looking to reboot Buffy with an African American lead?

    (Is that mean enough?)


  • Pitcrew

    Buffy meets Supernatural. Or Buffy meets Bro Buffy.


  • Admin

    @thenomain I read an interview by the series' showrunner and director a few days ago. She seemed super excited to be doing this, calling Buffy "her generation's Star Wars".

    There's no way to tell yet if it's going to be any good of course but usually where there's passion good things can happen. I'm optimistic.


  • Coder

    @arkandel said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    @thenomain I read an interview by the series' showrunner and director a few days ago. She seemed super excited to be doing this, calling Buffy "her generation's Star Wars".

    There's no way to tell yet if it's going to be any good of course but usually where there's passion good things can happen. I'm optimistic.

    Well let's be honest here: Buffy wasn't very good.

    Xena wasn't very good.

    Babylon 5 wasn't very good.

    Hell, Star Wars wasn't very good.

    They were evocative and transformative and new and exciting and that's what I'm looking for. Well, that and Eliza Dushku.


  • Admin

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Buffy wasn't very good.

    How dare you sir.


  • Coder

    @arkandel said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Buffy wasn't very good.

    How dare you sir.

    Like this:

    While the whole season with Dawn was pushing the Scrappy Doo Effect (which thank god they admit), I think once Buffy's mother died the whole series could not transition into adulthood. It was quite painful for me to watch, and painful to remember as mainly all I do remember is Spike and Buffy fucking being a plot point. And the robot. Dadist Buffy Robot was funny. I come back too around Lesbian/Dark Willow segment because damn Amber Benson was a breath of fresh air for the series, and the resulting plot had weight. And "The Zeppo" was a better episode than "Hush". Sorry. Not sorry.



  • @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    It only starts to work when you apply the guilt onto the character's foundational personality (where The Wyrd's psychoactive nature taps into), which seems to me to be a silly act of an RPG reducing player agency over their character.

    No, it works when you take into account that it's in their very magical nature to do this.

    Look, no player has 100% control over his character. Vampires are subject to the Beast taking over and ruining their fun, mages can get paradox in their heads and go on a magical spree. Werewolves have Kuruth.

    You are playing a game in which there are a fixed set of choices that you can choose from, all of them with various strengths and benefits. Sometimes, you don't get control over every choice and thing. That's part of playing a system with predefined stats and pre-sorted mechanics.

    In this specific case, you are playing a person who has had their agency taken away in order to fill some sort of meta-tropey-idea-thing. I cannot stress this enough -- if agency is your thing, changeling is not the game for you. You're gonna have a bad time of it. Or you're just gonna ignore the rest of the theme anyway.

    We can fight about the limits of player agency all we want, but at the end of the day, changeling is still the most flexible system by far, so.



  • @derp said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    It only starts to work when you apply the guilt onto the character's foundational personality (where The Wyrd's psychoactive nature taps into), which seems to me to be a silly act of an RPG reducing player agency over their character.

    No, it works when you take into account that it's in their very magical nature to do this.

    ...

    In this specific case, you are playing a person who has had their agency taken away in order to fill some sort of meta-tropey-idea-thing. I cannot stress this enough -- if agency is your thing, changeling is not the game for you. You're gonna have a bad time of it. Or you're just gonna ignore the rest of the theme anyway.

    We can fight about the limits of player agency all we want, but at the end of the day, changeling is still the most flexible system by far, so.

    I do think there is a difference between 'your nature was magically altered so you now have these particular feelings in accordance to what that nature IS' and 'your nature was magically altered and now you feel guilty about it'.


  • Pitcrew

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Here's another example: In Buffy (and later Angel), Angel is a mean-ass vampire who regains his soul and becomes all mopey and remorseful. Spike is a mean-ass vampire who regains his soul and then shrugs about it gets on with life.

    Gonna have to agree with @Derp and @ixokai here, bruv.

    On top of that, a few things:

    One. Angel getting his soul back was specifically a curse, while Spike getting his soul back was specifically a quest.

    These are two very different things in fiction, especially fantasy and urban fantasy fiction, and the different ways in which they processed their individual "ensoulment" make sense to me.

    Two. Related to the curse/quest bit, if Angel experienced a moment of true happiness, he reverted to Angelus. If Spike experienced a moment of true happiness, he was just really happy. It's easier to process your past evil deeds, I would imagine, if you are allowed to feel good about your future, rather than having a Sword of Damocles that informs you if you ever feel honestly happy, you're gonna be a monster again, whether you like it or not. That would make anyone a broody fucking emo pain.

    Three. By the time Spike shows up in Angel, Angel is also quite different, less emo, more chipper, willing to give at least a life of mediocre contentment a try with his werewolf girlfriend (Nina).

    In short, you chose the wrong analogy because some of us are super into Buffy and Angel and how dare you, sir.


  • Pitcrew

    @coin said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    some of us are super into Buffy and Angel and how dare you, sir.

    I'm pretty sure this is why there isn't a Buffy MUSH around. The players.


  • Pitcrew

    @wildbaboons said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    @coin said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    some of us are super into Buffy and Angel and how dare you, sir.

    I'm pretty sure this is why there isn't a Buffy MUSH around. The players.

    what? lol. please elaborate.


  • Pitcrew

    It was a joke? Fans arguing over theme, etc. Team Jacob vs Team Edward or whatever the equivalent is.



  • @wildbaboons said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Team Jacob vs Team Edward

    Did...did you just compare Buffy fans to Twihards?

    alt text


  • Pitcrew

    @wizz said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    Did...did you just compare Buffy fans to Twihards?

    Yes how dare that comparison be made they are different by at least a whole decade.


  • Coder

    @derp said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    @thenomain said in Changeling the Lost: 2nd Edition:

    It only starts to work when you apply the guilt onto the character's foundational personality (where The Wyrd's psychoactive nature taps into), which seems to me to be a silly act of an RPG reducing player agency over their character.

    No, it works when you take into account that it's in their very magical nature to do this.

    Please define "this". We are getting into Pronoun Trouble territory.

    Nevermind; see below.

    Look, no player has 100% control over his character.

    Just so you know, this is where I'm going to stop replying, because you're getting very adamant to prove me wrong starting with something that we agree with and I have said I agree with and given examples where I agree with this.

    Which means I don't think you know what my point is.

    Which means I am not going to argue trying to get you to understand.

    Because this is no longer a discussion.

    --

    More Changeling news as I read it.