Good TV


  • Admin

    @Rinel said in Good TV:

    angry white people

    These days, do a thing and someone somewhere will scream about it.

    Who cares. As long as characters are tugging on their braids or smoothing their skirts it should be about right.



  • It's funny. I often read more about people mocking the so-called "great white outrage" than I read about any actual "great white outrage". I did a number of searches on YouTube and Google with things like "wheel of time casting (insert one of the following: outrage, controversy, angry white people, uproar, screaming, and racism)" and came up with nothing. In fact, all I could find as the opposite, about how they BETTER force diversity into the series or there will be major problems.



  • @ZombieGenesis How is that funny? If you don't believe in 'great white outrage' you aren't exposed to the same people as me because daily I'll have complete strangers try to bring up the latest 'affront to whitery' with me just because I'm white and we're having casual conversation.



  • You have complete strangers just randomly come up to you and rage about white injustice? Okay. That sounds reasonable.


  • Pitcrew

    @ZombieGenesis said in Good TV:

    It's funny. I often read more about people mocking the so-called "great white outrage" than I read about any actual "great white outrage". I did a number of searches on YouTube and Google with things like "wheel of time casting (insert one of the following: outrage, controversy, angry white people, uproar, screaming, and racism)" and came up with nothing. In fact, all I could find as the opposite, about how they BETTER force diversity into the series or there will be major problems.

    Go look at places like Dragonmount or Facebook WoT fan pages, not random media articles.



  • Honestly, I'll stick with the random media articles. Why? When you go to targeted sites that seem to have 1 opinion that opinion is really only shared by a fraction of that particular site(which makes up only a fraction of the fanbase which, in turn, will only make up a fraction of people who will watch this TV show). The end result is a minimalist subset of people whose opinion will have 0 impact on the success of the show or whether or not I personally watch it. It sucks if you're a fan of those sites and you consider those communities home but, in the end, they represent a very small portion of people. And, as of yet, those opinions have not escaped into the wild. Not even The Quartering on YT is going on about any of this yet and he'll latch on to any "white injustice" topic to get hits on his channel.



  • @ZombieGenesis said in Good TV:

    Honestly, I'll stick with the random media articles. Why? When you go to targeted sites that seem to have 1 opinion that opinion is really only shared by a fraction of that particular site(which makes up only a fraction of the fanbase which, in turn, will only make up a fraction of people who will watch this TV show). The end result is a minimalist subset of people whose opinion will have 0 impact on the success of the show or whether or not I personally watch it. It sucks if you're a fan of those sites and you consider those communities home but, in the end, they represent a very small portion of people. And, as of yet, those opinions have not escaped into the wild. Not even The Quartering on YT is going on about any of this yet and he'll latch on to any "white injustice" topic to get hits on his channel.

    There is validity to this.

    I mean, how often here on MSB do we remind ourselves/each other that we're only a fraction of the MUing community as a whole and that one group's outrage here represents a very small minority?

    Also: hardcore fans (the sort that are on fan sites) tend to hate ANY changes, period. They (claim to) want the book or source media repeated on the screen word-for-word despite how frequently that is utterly unreasonable.


  • Pitcrew

    Trust me, you're both underestimating Dragonmount, especially since Wotmania shuttered a decade ago. It's not a particulalry small community.

    And yeah, I realize that the majority of fans don't care, but a lot of them do, so saying "well I haven't seen it" when you haven't looked at the places where it's most likely to show is... silly.



  • I honestly feel bad for some filmmakers having to balance pleasing the hardcore fanbase(the only reason the material is being converted into something more mainstream anyway) and turning that material into something palatable to as many people as possible. Even the Harry Potter movies, which I thought were amazing adaptations of the novel series, had a small subset of people who couldn't believe "this small thing" or "that random thing" was left out.



  • @Rinel There's also a difference between "WHITE OUTRAGE" and a small fraction of people(who may or may not be white) on a specific fansite whining about something. Again, it sucks if you're part of that community but it does not represent the larger world beyond.



  • @ZombieGenesis Yes, I actually do. Because when I converse with people about things I am a bit of an asshole and I surreptitiously guide conversations towards topics like that.

    But sure, keep living in a bubble, man. Nevermind that the majority of white women voted for a pussy grabber, and most white men voted for him too.


  • Admin

    @Rinel said in Good TV:

    Trust me, you're both underestimating Dragonmount, especially since Wotmania shuttered a decade ago. It's not a particulalry small community.

    Small or large compared to what?

    The only difference any community's opinion will matter in any conceivable way to filmmakers is if it can influence a show's ratings (or movie's ticket sales). That's it.

    I'm sure Dragonmount (whatever it is) is more populated than many others but I still doubt its collective opinion will make a dent in Amazon's metrics. Hell, I'll bet you they're more likely to watch it than everyone else, if only to grumble about it. :)


  • Pitcrew

    @Arkandel what he said.

    I'm a pretty huge WoT fan but I've never logged in to Dragonmount

    I am a little curious now how you're going to handle some of the racial traits that do make a difference story wise (Aiel and such and how they relate to the Dragon Reborn).. and I hope the dude playing Perrin hits the gym and has some protein shakes.


  • Pitcrew

    I think my argument was unclear. I'm not saying that mass outrage is going to even register as a blip on Amazon's radar. I was making an anecdotal observation that a lot of white guys are really mad right now on various WoT fansites.

    @WildBaboons

    Not even WoTmania? :(



  • @Rinel said in Good TV:

    I was making an anecdotal observation that a lot of white guys are really mad right now on various WoT fansites.

    Counselor, why are you on WoT fansites?



  • The real question is how the series will handle the strong D/s and BDSM undertones that Robert Jordan had in his books.

    (Which they'll likely remove, because that stuff always just felt a little... sleazy to me.)



  • @Rinel said in Good TV:

    I think my argument was unclear. I'm not saying that mass outrage is going to even register as a blip on Amazon's radar. I was making an anecdotal observation that a lot of white guys are really mad right now on various WoT fansites.

    @WildBaboons

    Not even WoTmania? :(

    I wonder if from a marketing perspective the people getting upset about racially motivated casting actually works in favor of the product.

    The more people upset about Perrin being cast with darker skin hitting social media will also draw more people to the show for supporting diversity? I think if doing so didn't result in good/better turnout we wouldn't be seeing it happen at all.


  • Admin

    @Admiral said in Good TV:

    The real question is how the series will handle the strong D/s and BDSM undertones that Robert Jordan had in his books.

    (Which they'll likely remove, because that stuff always just felt a little... sleazy to me.)

    Adjustments will be made anyway, there always are. A lot of the excess stuff will be sanitized, too - there's a very slim chance those Seanchan collars are making it the script the same way they were used in the books for starters.

    My main question would be what will get dropped since there is a lot of plot-fat to trim there.

    For example are they really going to have three separate romantic arcs for Rand? And how much time are they going to spend on exposition about how the One Power works? We're talking literally hundreds of pages' worth of material.

    Hell, the cast was just released - where's Lan? Elayne? Min? Those were all characters in book 1.



  • @Arkandel Odds are they'll trim down the most interesting stuff and just keep the boring central story. The draw for WoT was never the main story, though. It's standard, boring chosen one stuff. The draw was the intricate world and the sub plots and character interactions.

    The show will miss the mark entirely. It may still be a great show while also being a terrible representation of WoT. I'm hopeful that it will be good. But it won't be WoT.



  • @Admiral said in Good TV:

    @Arkandel Odds are they'll trim down the most interesting stuff and just keep the boring central story. The draw for WoT was never the main story, though. It's standard, boring chosen one stuff. The draw was the intricate world and the sub plots and character interactions.

    The show will miss the mark entirely. It may still be a great show while also being a terrible representation of WoT. I'm hopeful that it will be good. But it won't be WoT.

    This is how I'm feeling about it. I like the guy they cast for Perrin. I will also admit that I found Perrin's story throughout the series far more compelling than Rand's chosen one arc.

    Mat's story was more interesting too but often felt all over the place and seemed to sometimes rely on other narrative arcs too much to push his own story forward.


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