[Poll in OP] Population Code

ThatOneDude

@Thenomain said in Population Code:

This term has entered my RP vocabulary: "Are we RPing time/weather?" Almost every game I've RP'd on since the banishment of the dreaded "Nightzone" flag has had people either RPing game time or clarifying the conditions in their initial pose.

Whereas that term isn't in my vocabulary because I can count on one hand the number of times people were heeding the IC time/weather in their scenes. And I can't really blame them.

Bob and I want to RP, and our chars have little in common ICly other than they both like Pyramid (BSG basketball-ish sport). Ooops, can't play Pyramid because +weather says it's raining outside. So much for that idea.

Another day, we want to meet up, except +time says it's Monday at 2pm and we'd both be ICly working at our separate jobs that have no reason to intersect. Oh well. Guess I'll just watch TV instead.

I understand the converse argument is that these are fun obstacles to challenge your creativity or whatever, but here's the thing... I have enough challenges in my life. I really don't need code throwing obstacles in my way. It's annoying, so I ignore it.

What if you just +weather/set or +time/set for the room...?

Thenomain

@faraday

But that describes exactly the WoD Mu*er's current use of time & temp systems: A default, not a requirement. It provides a framework from which you can easier write that set, a writer's tool. If you decide to ignore it for reasons of etc. etc., then it's a tool that you don't need. Me? I love the tool, and I know quite a few people who use it. (c.f., WoD)

I'm not sure how useful a population calculator would be, or if it would be as useful as, say, a weather system that tries to accurately calculate not only rainfall but accumulation based on regional drainage and ground absorption rates. Or if a builder could just say: It's between 4 and 6 so let's describe the place as 'crowded'. I can see the benefits and drawbacks in both.

acceleration

@ThatOneDude said in Population Code:

What if you just +weather/set or +time/set for the room...?

This is what I had in mind. Basically, a room default, + the option to set if you have a PRP or vampires in the room or want to RP in the sunshine but game time is 3 in the morning, and the game would automatically load a range of NPCs in the area and security level/police response time (based on population/likelihood of reporting) for that area.

This isn't meant to be hard and fast, it's just a tool that might help players. On the other hand, I do see +weather code go ignored as a standard plenty, even though I myself try to incorporate it as I would the current moon phase unless I have specific reason to ignore it. I don't know if this is because it requires a command to view in most cases or whether or not it being a default in room display would make a difference to RP. I guess as a starter project it's not a bad place to start, so I'll probably do it anyway.

faraday

@ThatOneDude said in Population Code:

What if you just +weather/set or +time/set for the room...?

Why bother though? Someone always scene sets, and setting time/weather is a part of that. Adding code to it is just an extra, unnecessary step.

@Thenomain - Not suggesting the code is evil or anything, just explaining why I don't like it and generally ignore it. If I were doing it as a writer's prompt I would make it an on-demand "suggest something to me" sort of thing, ala a Plot Generator, not something that gets chucked into every room desc like it's a part of the established world. But that's just me.

3543thrh67

@ThatOneDude I actually like that. The only issue is if people were RPing in another room as a 'bright sunny day' then they step into the room to 'a snowy evening' it's a little finicky. Although.. it might be fixable with a +weather that shows all the locations with different weathers and times.

Thenomain

@faraday said in Population Code:

@Thenomain - Not suggesting the code is evil or anything, just explaining why I don't like it and generally ignore it. If I were doing it as a writer's prompt I would make it an on-demand "suggest something to me" sort of thing, ala a Plot Generator, not something that gets chucked into every room desc like it's a part of the established world. But that's just me.

It is a "suggest something to me". It's suggesting to you based on a model instead of a random number generator, and that it's been a long, long time since I knew anyone pressured to RP the weather description in the room, mostly because it's been a long time since I've seen the weather description in the room.

I'm not saying you're wrong to not like it, I'm saying why people find value in it.

faraday

@Thenomain said in [Poll in OP] Population Code:

it's been a long, long time since I knew anyone pressured to RP the weather description in the room, mostly because it's been a long time since I've seen the weather description in the room.

I think we're having another culture clash moment, because on the games I've played it's almost always been incorporated into the room descs.

Thenomain

@faraday said in [Poll in OP] Population Code:

@Thenomain said in [Poll in OP] Population Code:

it's been a long, long time since I knew anyone pressured to RP the weather description in the room, mostly because it's been a long time since I've seen the weather description in the room.

I think we're having another culture clash moment, because on the games I've played it's almost always been incorporated into the room descs.

Clearly your culture needs to cut that out.

faraday

@Thenomain Well I think it was a (misguided) attempt to get people to actually pay attention to it because mostly folks were ignoring it. But instead it only resulted in people ignoring it entirely... all of which colors my perception of it greatly.

3543thrh67

I don't actually mind the weather in the room descs. It's the 20 million emits I dislike. Especially in large scenes.

Roz

I love both weather in descs and emits. Maybe I'm weird.

Three-Eyed Crow

I like them for flavor, I'll admit. It's one more toy on the grid to play with to give it a sense of place, which I honestly do think helps me in RP. Weather, that is, and having it in the desc is more than enough. Time of day I don't feel is particularly useful, since it's something you're going to need to change most of the time anyway depending on what the PCs present need to play out.

3543thrh67

I'd be good with a time that's just a vague 'It's morning on X day of the week and in the month of X.'

Roz

Second Pass had a command where you could adjust the time of day in a room and the weather would adjust accordingly and fuck me if I didn't love the hell out of it. 2P had several code items I wish I had access to now.

acceleration

@Roz
This sounds interesting. How did it work exactly? Did it use a real world setting/weather reading?

Roz

@acceleration No, it was a Pern game so it wouldn't match with any real world weather. (The calendar didn't even match.) I think the code must have just generated the full day's weather every day so if you told the room to set to 1pm, it knew what weather was set for 1pm.

acceleration

@Roz
For a custom fantasy setting, weather ambience is probably more important/likeable. For a real world setting I can understand the complaints about RP being put off by the seasonal blizzard or whatever, but at the same time I think playing to the setting is important and that trying to use a standard of weather can help maintain tone and consistency across all the individual storylines in any given mu*.

Roz

@acceleration Man, blizzard RP is awesome! We literally had a player basically GM a blizzard weekend last winter. I guess Second Pass also had a potential cheat if you were really determined to have RP in weather opposed to what the code was offering: it ran on 2:1 time that happened by skipping every other day in the code. So you could potentially set something on the off-day if you really needed that sun. But I happen to also love the extra layer of context and spontaneity weather code brings to RP. I can recall lots of times I felt my RP was enriched by weather code, but I can't offhand think of any times I felt like my RP was hampered by it. Which isn't even to say it never happened, but I don't even remember it now because it was so fleeting.

acceleration

@Roz
I like it too and will be trying to work it into our game as a suggested guideline/default to be used, particularly with any crossing individual storylines. If your friend was murdered in the snow and the killer left footprints and a bloody trail in it then you probably shouldn't be RPing it's 65 and sunny, etc.

I think there's definitely some culture clash in those who view RP mu*s as sandboxes and those who don't, but I guess as long as it's all established via the rules when you sign up everything should be okay.

Ninjakitten

Yeah, the reminding people they're not the only people around aspect might be pretty handy sometimes.