Is Giving Advice Worth It?


  • Coder

    I begin this post with the caveat that I do understand unsolicited advice is generally considered to be a no-no. Hence I am asking for general advice on ... advice.

    This is in regards to a particular situation I am observing on a MU*-That-Shall-Remain-Nameless involving someone's portrayal of a character that is already an existing intellectual property. I am not going to name the character in question, because I have no desire for a name-and-shame scenario (I'd go to the Hog Pit for that).

    This person has a character that is, as presented in media, a sociopathic (or at least highly violent and murderous) manipulator who has the ability to manipulate the emotions of others in any direction using pheromones. The character's history includes a lot of luring, trapping, murdering, torture, etc. - generally villainous behavior. The character has also shown some bisexual tendencies in the use of their pheromones and has had both same and opposite sex lovers mentioned in the source material.

    This person is, however, portraying this character, in both in and out of character areas, as essentially a walking glitter-dusted erection with Louis Vuitton handbags who sissy-slaps with rich girls over FABULOUS FASHION (fingersnap) and sniffs the buttcheeks of every other male character that walks by, determining their worth as a person according to their looks.

    This behavior has been off-putting to the point where I am seeing and hearing other people beginning to leave areas they are in or not scene with them, or say they refuse to scene with them. I think this person has a lot of potential as a roleplayer if they'd just rope it in a little. I don't think they are aware of how their behavior is affecting their RP opportunities.

    Hence my dilemma: Is it worth it to take them quietly aside and as gently and tactfully as possible ask them to tone it down a little so they can have more roleplay options, or is it better that I let the trainwreck continue on full speed into the wall they're headed towards?

    (I ask because in my younger RP years, I had someone kind enough to take me aside and rip me a new sphincter over some stupid things I'd done, and I took that to heart, learned from it, and had better and more RP because of it. In this case I'd refrain from sphincter ripping.)



  • It's going to depend on the player and how well they receive the attempt. I've had it go both ways when I've put myself out there to offer advice and feedback. Sometimes you get thanked, sometimes you're brushed off as a dino with too much baggage to bring anything worthwhile to the constructive table. Do you feel like coping with the fallout if they take it badly? If your answer is no, let it go.



  • @Nein ask yourself this on a seriously introspective, zero bullshit level:

    Are you wanting to give this advice for the player's benefit, or because you and others you play with are annoyed?

    From what you've written, I'm sensing a high dislike of the player's take on the character and their behavior despite the way other players react to it. So, I'm sensing a little bit of being sick of it, which is far different from actually caring about this player's enjoyment of the game or their role play options.

    Don't give disingenuous advice to someone under the guise of being what's best for them, when the end result is aiming for something better for yourself.

    You'd be better off being honest and asking the player if they mind some constructive criticism, telling them objectively your feelings about their interaction on the game, and letting the dice roll on that.


  • Admin

    To add to @Ghost's comments, what's your goal, OP? What do you actually want to accomplish? If you know that then you can figure out if it's worth offering advice.

    Are you trying to fix how a character is played to fit your interpretation? Is it to let the other play have a piece of your mind? Is it to escalate ("I told him it was wrong, but he didn't change it, so that's why I'm bringing it to you now Mr/Ms Staff") if needed?

    What's your goal here?



  • I kind of call bullshit on OP's talk of not wanting to name-and-shame. Or at least, OP, you didn't post in line with that philosophy. You gave way a lot of detail, enough that any person with half a brain knows exactly which character you are talking about. If someone's playing on the game, they know even more. I am not playing on the game, but I bet I could find it with just a little bit of poking about.


  • Politics

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    I kind of call bullshit on OP's talk of not wanting to name-and-shame. Or at least, OP, you didn't post in line with that philosophy. You gave way a lot of detail, enough that any person with half a brain knows exactly which character you are talking about. If someone's playing on the game, they know even more. I am not playing on the game, but I bet I could find it with just a little bit of poking about.

    I think OP doesn't really wanna name-and-shame but the details got away from them.

    That said: Daken or Purple Man? What's up?

    I don't play on any games as described tho', so I wouldn't be able to point fingers.


  • Coder

    You both make excellent points.

    Advice usually given by friends is easier to take.

    As for the situation, it's a combination of remembering what it was like to be 'that guy' that would make people get up and leave a room and be left wondering "why won't anyone talk to me or play with me", and remembering how that felt, and not wanting to wish it on anyone.

    I have no horse in this race; I am not required to interact with them nor is anyone else I've played with, nor am I a long-term established player with time, emotion and energy invested into play there. I've just heard what's said when they're gone or offline. I felt bad for them, because I've been there, and I was very grateful to the person that had the balls to talk to me.

    That's why I left a post soliciting for advice rather than just open my mouth on-game and stick my foot in it.



  • @Coin said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    I kind of call bullshit on OP's talk of not wanting to name-and-shame. Or at least, OP, you didn't post in line with that philosophy. You gave way a lot of detail, enough that any person with half a brain knows exactly which character you are talking about. If someone's playing on the game, they know even more. I am not playing on the game, but I bet I could find it with just a little bit of poking about.

    I think OP doesn't really wanna name-and-shame but the details got away from them.

    That said: Daken or Purple Man? What's up?

    I don't play on any games as described tho', so I wouldn't be able to point fingers.

    It's Kilgrave/Purple Man. Ten bucks on that.

    And yeah, I accounted for them not really wanting to, but again. They didn't post in line with that philosophy. Intent vs action.


  • Politics

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Coin said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    I kind of call bullshit on OP's talk of not wanting to name-and-shame. Or at least, OP, you didn't post in line with that philosophy. You gave way a lot of detail, enough that any person with half a brain knows exactly which character you are talking about. If someone's playing on the game, they know even more. I am not playing on the game, but I bet I could find it with just a little bit of poking about.

    I think OP doesn't really wanna name-and-shame but the details got away from them.

    That said: Daken or Purple Man? What's up?

    I don't play on any games as described tho', so I wouldn't be able to point fingers.

    It's Kilgrave/Purple Man. Ten bucks on that.

    And yeah, I accounted for them not really wanting to, but again. They didn't post in line with that philosophy. Intent vs action.

    I dunno. i think Daken is totally a viable candidate. I can just see the fabulous scenes of him paitning his claws vibrant colors.

    (I am dying. I want to see an alternate reality where daken is that fabulous.)


  • Coder

    To be fair, I had never heard of the character prior to joining the game. I had to do a lot of googling to find out why people were complaining. Guess I have half a brain.

    I had to give some details on the situation just to verify that A) I was not witnessing someone being treated poorly by a lot of people for no reason and B) that my perspective was not off. I was willing to be corrected if that was the case. I can see that I didn't handle even the post as tactfully as I'd intended, but there you go.

    Edit: The answer to "Is it Killgrave/Daken" is "None of the above."



  • @Nein said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    To be fair, I had never heard of the character prior to joining the game. I had to do a lot of googling to find out why people were complaining. Guess I have half a brain.

    I had to give some details on the situation just to verify that A) I was not witnessing someone being treated poorly by a lot of people for no reason and B) that my perspective was not off. I was willing to be corrected if that was the case. I can see that I didn't handle even the post as tactfully as I'd intended, but there you go.

    Well! If you want advice, in the future you should simplify details. 'Serious, manipulative bisexual male character with dark and serious themes is being played like a walking glitter-dusted gay erection' would have been enough for people to judge your perspective.


  • Coder

    Hopefully a fairly harmless example...

    Someone had a room configured incorrectly in a game. When you'd look at the list of rooms, it stood out like a sore thumb. It was annoying to look at, for me.

    Now, a friend and I said... Surely this person is aware that they have their room configured wrong. How can they not be. It's so flipping obvious. Surely someone already said "Hey, fix it". And they didn't for whatever reason.

    But surely this person knows is a pretty dumb thing to think. So, I paged them. I said, "Hey, is this intentional? And if not, can I help you?" the response was, "OMG thank you! I have no idea how to fix it and I haven't been able to get any help."

    So I sent the person the command to fix it. Et voilĂ . Problem fixed.

    Key is, of course, that you have to do this carefully and tactfully. If you can think of a way to carefully and tactfully say, "Hey, I noticed that your play style doesn't exactly jive with the media I'm used to seeing. I was just wondering if that was intentional?" (which, maybe just copy+paste that line) then do so. Because maybe this person is doing it on purpose. Maybe they're not. But if you're respectful and honestly trying to have a conversation, and you don't push, and you don't judge, then it'll be fine!

    And if you can't be careful and tactful, poke a friend who can.


  • Coder

    @Meg Thank you, I will. I was hoping to learn something and I did. I appreciate your response.

    @skew I'm going to stand back just a bit and see if someone else steps up, but if the situation gets dire, your copypasta line sounds like a good one.



  • @Coin said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Coin said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    @Meg said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    I kind of call bullshit on OP's talk of not wanting to name-and-shame. Or at least, OP, you didn't post in line with that philosophy. You gave way a lot of detail, enough that any person with half a brain knows exactly which character you are talking about. If someone's playing on the game, they know even more. I am not playing on the game, but I bet I could find it with just a little bit of poking about.

    I think OP doesn't really wanna name-and-shame but the details got away from them.

    That said: Daken or Purple Man? What's up?

    I don't play on any games as described tho', so I wouldn't be able to point fingers.

    It's Kilgrave/Purple Man. Ten bucks on that.

    And yeah, I accounted for them not really wanting to, but again. They didn't post in line with that philosophy. Intent vs action.

    I dunno. i think Daken is totally a viable candidate. I can just see the fabulous scenes of him paitning his claws vibrant colors.

    (I am dying. I want to see an alternate reality where daken is that fabulous.)

    Apparently, if you played on the game, you could. I owe you ten bucks. And @Nein lied. On //MSB//. Don't do that, son.



  • @Meg oh so it was Daken or Purple Man?

    GASP!


  • Pitcrew

    @Ghost My money is on Daken. If it is the game I am thinking it might be, i've seen that Daken and.....yeah.



  • Let's be blunt: the guy is so obviously painting Daken@UnitedHeroes that the initial claim of not wanting to name and shame is risible (and thoroughly disingenuous). The added "I've heard that people are saying" thing is just diarrhoetic frosting on the bullshit cake.

    So here's my advice to OP: if Daken's antics are bugging you you have these viable options:

    1. Avoid.
    2. Talk to HIM privately with your concerns, and without the bullshit "I'm concerned on your behalf" nonsense.
    3. Nothing else.

    Note what is missing from this list: trying to stir up a good old-fashioned MSB/WORA/SWOFA/whatever curb stomp. Because the stomp could very well be yours if you keep this nonsense up.



  • @WTFE said in Is Giving Advice Worth It?:

    Note what is missing from this list: trying to stir up a good old-fashioned MSB/WORA/SWOFA/whatever curb stomp. Because the stomp could very well be yours if you keep this nonsense up.

    But if he stops, we'll have one less reason to drink. :(



  • His kind never stops and I have the inflamed liver to prove it.


  • Pitcrew

    If someone is playing a canon character so poorly then it's a matter for staff, not you. Typically FC-heavy games have a clause somewhere in the rules that says, hey, if you portray a character poorly then we can take it away from you.

    Is giving advice worth it? Hah! Does it ever work, online or otherwise?


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