Arx: @clues


  • Pitcrew

    Clues take usually significant (or sometimes insignificant) actions and RP by players in the game, sometimes ranging for just one player to a huge amount. Often it costs AP and IC resources, investment of XP on stats/skills and abilities, sometimes OOC coordination and other efforts. I understand that many feel they’ve earned these clues and as they’ve bought them, they are their property, so it becomes yet another asset in an asset rich game.

    The flaw with @clues is that it comes yet another asset that draws people in to horde and exclude others (which some clues are based on secrets). Given the GM requirements for each of these to research the theme, look at and review the activity being undertaken by players, write a @clue in keeping with the theme, updating GM notes, etc, this will only increase the demand to GM’s given the player base increasing and is not sustainable. There is a lot of work put into these by staff that could benefit far more people than who initially obtain the @clue.

    I’d like to see personally held clues on characters with the risk of being randomly eroded on a monthly cron. You can share it to an @org which could quite potentially keep it safe from erosion, which presents a risk choice to the player of either hoarding and possibly losing it, or sharing and the risks that might have but lets it be kept. If you want the clue again, you can spend your AP to acquire it and use it (or have other players spend AP to acquire it and talk with you about it).

    This lets players who are new get access to a lot more new and up to date @clues via the @org system and reinforces that the game is trying to be as inclusive as possible and inviting, offering RP avenues to those that are wanting to seek it out.


  • Pitcrew

    I think I'd be very sad if clues started to erode because I'll be the one copying them all off game to make sure I remember things.


  • Pitcrew

    I don't know that I think "hording" and not sharing clues is really an issue on Arx. If anything (and I'm totally guilty of this) it's more: "oh you're looking for information on x-subject? Lemme see what I have" and digging up all the things. I try to give context and not just make it an info drop, but it happens. >.>


  • Pitcrew

    ETA: Wow thanks for randomly replying to this thread, phone. Uh. Maybe I'll be back on a real keyboard.



  • Shouldn't both the opportunity to double check many things, as well as their relevance fade over time?


  • Politics

    If you've got clue envy, the best thing to do is go out and RP and get more clues. There's lots of people who will clue-share with joyful abandon (I'm one of them!) over a series of scenes. You just have to find those people, and RP with them about something you're interested in. Sure, there are people who will horde and not share. But even if you encounter them, you're still getting RP, and isn't that the point? Join an @org and work your way up the ranks to get access to their clues! There's so many ways to combat clue envy!


  • Coder

    Honestly, I think that if @clues are being "hoarded," it's because they're secret or considered dangerous. That, or the player is trying to control something.

    There are tons of people out there who are happy to dump all sorts of @clues on people who ask them to. @clues are a great way to get new players involved. Getting your first @clue is really exciting for a lot of people, and collecting a set or more is a good goal for a lot of characters. It gives people things to talk about, things to trade.

    The truth is, if @clues went away, people would just start filing them in databases. I mean, right now, they're in a conveniently searchable database. So the double-checking would only be made more inconvenient, and the relevance or lack thereof is debatable.

    There are plenty of controlling characters out there who want to keep the stream of information tight. There are also plenty of information-generous characters out there who want to talk to you about their @clues.


  • Pitcrew

    @vulgarkitten My issue is everyone is always out of AP to share them. Or they forget to share them once they do have the AP. After asking twice I don't bother with them anymore.

    I just run into hoarders.


  • Pitcrew

    I rarely come across people hoarding clues. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places? For the most part I encounter people who are happy to share with clues with me. I am happy to share clues with other! The number of clues that I won't share is very small, and that's just because it's info my character wouldn't share in the first place because it's super secret or dangerous. But I could probably count those clues on one hand.

    Clue sharing is actually one of the best ways to get players involved in something.

    Also my clues are already in a database called EVERNOTE.


  • Pitcrew

    @roz

    I had an access database for my old character. ^^



  • I haven't run into this as an issue at all. I share clues routinely and freely unless there are reasons not to. I think clue "dump banks" where clues exist floating freeform without context and people just take them to justify whatever crazy theory of the week they're working with is a way more prevalent problem than people not sharing their clues.

    The only thing I've run into as an issue that's brought up here is running low on AP for clue sharing when RPing at the end of a week. Which could be solved by me time managing better, probably. IDK.

    Upkeep systems that require you to lose what you already have always come across systemically as player "punishment," and I don't think this would be any different than any other time that comes up. Sorry, but I really don't think this is a good idea. I also really hate the idea of protecting clues from erosion from sharing them to an org. Orgs are ICly groups that involve large numbers of NPCs. You should not be sharing anything to an org that you would not freely share with large numbers of NPCs. MANY, MANY clues should not be shared freely with large numbers of NPCs.

    The ability to double check things shouldn't fade over time because the fact of having the @clue means that your character has sources of some kind to back up the information they have. Now, the ability to remember shit OFF HAND that they have sources on SOMEWHERE in their STUFF should fade over time, but let's face it, it does, because, human memories.


  • Pitcrew

    Uhhhh, yeah, man. If Mia has an @clue you want, just....y'know. Ask? I'm willing to share almost every @clue she has except for ones that pertain to particular PCs and their secrets, including her own, because that's a shitty thing to do to another player, and I didn't particularly appreciate having it done to me. Other than that and, like, two dangerous things.... whatever, bro. Just gimme a scene and maybe some hot vote XP.


  • Pitcrew

    @aria I've never had an issue with getting clues. The only thing that gets in the way of it is when I just don't have the AP (which is very rare), so I try to direct them to someone else who might be able to give it to them. At the very least, I'll talk about it.



  • Given that part of the theme is rediscovering lost knowledge, I don't know how thematic clue deterioration would be. I feel like, once it's uncovered, it's back in the wider world. I do wish you got a certain number of 'free' clue shares a week (kind of like your Teaching stat gives you free trains a week) but if I were to isolate the systems on Arx I think are semi-broken, clues would be fairly low on the list.

    My hate-on for orgs that just bank a bunch of clues for people to brief themselves on with no context is vast and I think it leads to problems in terms of people RPing some real whack-a-doo things, but making clues harder to share individually and without scenes would just make this worse.


  • Pitcrew

    @three-eyed-crow said in Arx: @clues:

    My hate-on for orgs that just bank a bunch of clues for people to brief themselves on with no context is vast and I think it leads to problems in terms of people RPing some real whack-a-doo things, but making clues harder to share individually and without scenes would just make this worse.

    It leads to character death is what it leads to.



  • I have seen some REALLY misguided stuff IC, and people almost always double down when you try and steer them back towards reality because of course no one's made up theory that they made themselves could be based in inaccurate information or rooted in a mix of Arx theme and other fantasy stuff they unconsciously drew in from elsewhere.


  • Coder

    @three-eyed-crow said in Arx: @clues:

    Given that part of the theme is rediscovering lost knowledge, I don't know how thematic clue deterioration would be. I feel like, once it's uncovered, it's back in the wider world. I do wish you got a certain number of 'free' clue shares a week (kind of like your Teaching stat gives you free trains a week) but if I were to isolate the systems on Arx I think are semi-broken, clues would be fairly low on the list.

    My hate-on for orgs that just bank a bunch of clues for people to brief themselves on with no context is vast and I think it leads to problems in terms of people RPing some real whack-a-doo things, but making clues harder to share individually and without scenes would just make this worse.

    Requiring clue briefing from orgs (and possibly from individuals) to require bundling clues into theories in order to provide context is on the to-do list. It's a little more annoying to implement than it sounds, so it'll probably take a little while, though.


  • Pitcrew

    I haven't touched @theories. I'm not ready.



  • @shincashay I love the idea of theories in theory but it reminds me too much of homework when I try to actually do it and then I go lie down and nap instead. >.>


  • Coder

    I've run into situations where I've asked people for information on things, been told we were going to RP to get clues shared and get the character clued in and then...

    Nothing happened. Ever. To the point that I ended up never getting clued in.

    When I did get a response I was told: I am working on a different plot now.

    Ok... thanks for nothing I guess?