Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern
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There are examples of what's basically creative thaumaturgy and rote-making in the books and show being done by students who certainly aren't masters.
My own take on this back when thinking about how to adapt it was to allow people to make rotes, but require a "research" scene where they cast it with the CT rules first and no free reach, and something like doubled Paradox pools or whatever just to represent how dangerous it was to mess around with raw, non-codified magic.
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@Ganymede said in Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern:
May I suggest not requiring Mastery to make new rotes?
I personally never understood that requirement. If magic is individual, why can't an individual who can cast a particular spell figure out how to do it? This is especially true if a mage cannot cast an effect without a rote, which I believe is what you're aiming for.
@Wizz said in Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern:
There are examples of what's basically creative thaumaturgy and rote-making in the books and show being done by students who certainly aren't masters.
My own take on this back when thinking about how to adapt it was to allow people to make rotes, but require a "research" scene where they cast it with the CT rules first and no free reach, and something like doubled Paradox pools or whatever just to represent how dangerous it was to mess around with raw, non-codified magic.
Mmmmmmmmmmm. Not so much, really?
I mean, creative Thaumaturgy perhaps, but rotes? No.
Rotes are the kind of spells that you can cast after the extended study period at Brakebills South. When you can feel it on instinct. When you've got magic in all the body parts that our lovely professor mentions. Average students can't do that. Hell, most experienced magicians can't do that.
You have to have a deep understanding of the theory in order to make that happen, so I can easily see rotes still requiring mastery.
In Mage 2E, though, you can easily develop new Yantras that will fit your situation, and possibly even some praxes.
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@Ganymede said in Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern:
May I suggest not requiring Mastery to make new rotes?
I personally never understood that requirement. If magic is individual, why can't an individual who can cast a particular spell figure out how to do it?
Because holding rotes over newbies' heads enforces a system of control that makes the apprentice/master relationship justified by the mechanics as well as the fluff. Like you implied (or maybe I just inferred it), it's probably not relevant to a game that doesn't use the setting.
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@GreenFlashlight said in Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern:
Because holding rotes over newbies' heads enforces a system of control that makes the apprentice/master relationship justified by the mechanics as well as the fluff. Like you implied (or maybe I just inferred it), it's probably not relevant to a game that doesn't use the setting.
I can get behind this, if this is the game people are looking for.
That is I suppose what I'm getting at. Is this a game where there is a strict apprentice/master relationship? If so, that's fine, I get it.
But for the reasons that may be stated in Mage 2E, I think those justifications and theories go out the window when you import the system into a different setting.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Ganymede said in Magicy Shenanigans - high fantasy or more modern:
may be stated in Mage 2E
If you aren't familiar with Mage 2E, they now differentiate between Praxis and Rote spells.
Praxes are those tried-and-true formulaic spells. The kind of thing that students would learn. It's the 'signature move' spells, the ones that come fast and easy because you've practiced the everloving shit out of them. They're easier to use than magic on the fly, and exactly what Marina and crew would be trading. They're tested formulas.
Rotes, on the other hand, are spells that offer you a high degree of flexibility in how they come about. You get more Reach on them, which lets you do bigger and bolder magic with less risk of Paradox. They're magics that you innately understand, and it takes a master to create them because they have to knows the ins-and-outs of this particular Arcanum, not just the spell. It's the post-Brakebills-South 'you no longer need words or gestures, you just will it into action* level of magical understanding that lets you pull of some incredibly amazing shit, altered on the fly.
Hopefully that offers some clarification.
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I want to emphasize the master/apprentice relationship like Dean Fogg has with all the students. I don't really want the students to be running around like crazy doing Marina-esque things right off the bat. They're going to struggle like early Quentin and Julia. Magic is hard. It comes from pain and all that.
I do like the difference with rotes and praxis though. I think that definitely applies with what happens post Brakebills South. It could also be some difference between hedge magicians and regular magicians.
