WoD MUSH Comparison?

Spawnblade

Interested person here. Long-time roleplayer (NWN veteran, old MUDs, newer MMOs.) Untested, novice MUSHer.

I became interested in the World of Darkness setting and books a few months back after a friend began a VtR campaign. Somehow stumbled across The Reach and bookmarked the information for when I'd have more time (Summer / Now.) Discovered, recently, that The Reach is basically dead, with one official replacement coming shortly, and a number of unofficial replacements that seem to have sprouted in its wake.

Now I've been trying to determine the reasons as to why this great divide happened. Whether it's just that people had grown tired of the old setting, old characters -- stagnancy? Or whether there are administrative issues. Or simply players that couldn't separate IC and OOC, whose grudges seeped through and pervaded the atmosphere of the server.

I can't come to a definitive conclusion. I wasn't there. There seems to be a lot of grudges though, regardless, making it difficult to get unbiased information.

So I thought I'd inquire here about the server options available, as now I have the inclination, and, more importantly, the time to get my RP fix. So allow me a few questions, if you will:

Where have most of the players gone, or where will they go? The player base makes the roleplay, so this is an important question for me. I noticed City of Hope seems to have taken the reigns as the #1 populated WoD world right now -- is that just coincidence? Is there something there that's been drawing everyone, or is that just temporary while Fallcoast / Eldritch get their bearings? I was under the impression that oWoD wasn't nearly as popular. I'd have to learn the new system, unfortunately, but I'm not averse to it if the server is drawing people because it's good enough to be worth it.
Is now a good time to get into WoD MUSHes? Seems like it is, with the great deal of turbulence / transition going on that might allow opportunities for a new player. At the very least, it seems like that would mean less stagnancy.
Are there any recommendations or anti-recommendations for any WoD servers? I've heard both good and bad about a few of them that makes deciding on one quite difficult, but I've had to read individual advertisement threads all the way through, and even then only picked up snippets of what makes it one or the other. I'm inclined to give any of them a chance, regardless. Though I wish the decision was more cut and dry, as I've dealt with both extremely dramatic and stagnant servers on Neverwinter Nights in the past, and while fun could be had, it was often bittersweet and tinged with a sense of discontent. I guess what I'm really asking here is -- Which are you playing on or going to play on, and why? It can be any reason or reasons. I'm finding it difficult to quantify the good and bad that I've read about these servers, so a few honest opinions might sway me. Try to avoid the "Because so-and-so isn't or is there" reason though, unless you can link me to a source (here or in a message) that would give me insight into the Why of it.

I know this is a selfish question -- request, even. Maybe this isn't the place or forum to even post it? But I've found myself at quite the crossroads, and could use a little insight from those who've dealt with all these demons and fae before. Thanks.

Silver

@Spawnblade I can recommend that Eldritch seems to have a good, responsive staff and operates under regard for more or less current rules being released in the game system. Those are your pros.

Cons are that opportunity to play a supernatural something is limited. One may potentially play a Vampire, Demon, or Werewolf, but there are limited slots made available for these things. Additionally the word from staff is that they will never allow Mage, so if you ever want to play that I guess go somewhere else.

Onyx Path is extremely slow to release new things that open up new games, since they appear to prefer working on supplement material for already released games and throwback Old WoD material instead. That isn't the fault of Eldritch, but it does affect the timeframe of things to come on the game.

ThatOneDude

@Silver I don't know if I'd recommend Eldritch to a new player or not. Much like Reno that uses 2e rules there is a lot of potential for Eldritch, more so since it has Demon where a game like Reno does not. Reno looks to have fell into a state that is what one would call, limping along. A few die hard players that stick it out but there isn't much going on as a whole.

Eldritch I fear is going to go that same rout unless some minor changes are made. Plot in a Mu* is everything and if there is no driving force moving the player base forward what do we have? A game where people try to do little stories here and there but ultimately nothing is really going on.

Hopefully the staff is just recooping from the open and will turn it around and get things moving.

I know - I may be a single voice that "doesn't get it" with that game but I brought over about 4 people along with myself that all just slowly stop playing because there is nothing of substance to do.

The response could be = Make your own fun! But, I can do that anywhere and in a place where my fun includes the rest of the game as a whole.

@Spawnblade The TL;DR version is: I would possibly stay away from Reno, hope for the best with Eldritch as it has the best hope of being successful (even though no Mage or Vampire bloodlines) and use Fallcoast as a backup if you don't mind playing 1e games of nWoD.

Coin

Uh. I'm running a ton of plot for Eldritch. I ran something that you were in a week ago, that will have ramifications for your character down the line.

If you're expecting staff to be constantly running things for everyone all the time, you're just not going to find that anywhere. None of us have that sort of time or drive anymore.

I think maybe your and your friends's expectations are a wee bit high, man. Just a thought.

And let me stress this: we didn't, and still don't want to be, the "next big thing". We don't want to be a large game. We want to be a game we can provide plot in. I have said this since the beginning.

Miss Demeanor

I was gonna say.. I was signed up for like, three plots last week that I wasn't able to get to for various reasons. But that was my fault rather than the game's. There are things happening, maybe not EVERY day, but certainly at least once a week.

ThatOneDude

@Coin said:
Right, I had fun in the plot but over all the vibe is what it is for me, and its what this poster asked for. For good or bad. In the event you're speaking to I had a blast because I enjoy any action but it was an event for someone else that just happened to invite me. In the demon sphere we plot and whisper and spread information but ultimately it isn't feeling like its going anywhere. Once again this is me, not the 10 other people that will say they have a great time and do things

The experience of my friends is theirs but I know they slipped away which as you say doesn't matter in the long run but they never got HOOKED in. I was lucky and got in on a great scene Eerie ran early on that made me excited. Maybe I'm just the kind of person that see's that half-full glass.

Silver

@Coin Always with your excuses. All I hear is about how you think that one single ton of plot is adequate. Back in my day we ran five tons each and we liked it.

Coin

@Silver said:

@Coin Always with your excuses. All I hear is about how you think that one single ton of plot is adequate. Back in my day we ran five tons each and we liked it.

Yeah, but no one liked you. And that's still true today.

@ThatOneDude

I don't know, man. I think maybe you're conflating "Demon plot" with something exclusive to Demons, when it doesn't work that way from a staff perspective on Eldritch. In fact, the plot that @Eerie has been running is conencted to the stuff I've been running almost 100%. People will connect the dots eventually.

Mostly, though, I get a real vibe of impatience from a lot of people and desire to make Eldritch something it was never designed to be (a replacement for The Reach). It's not and it won't be.

Miss Demeanor

The hardest part, for me, is finding RP outside of plots. A lot of people are still kind of... hiding away in private rooms or the OOC room and being generally unresponsive to prompts for RP. This may still be leftover from the shellshock of TR, but its not easy finding pickup RP between plot scenes.

Sunny

There are a lot of nWoD games. This 'unofficial' and 'official' replacement, that's not quite how mushes work. They're closing The Reach, and opening Fallcoast. The reasons and such behind it are what they are and irrelevant to what you're asking, I think. Drama. You can sum it up with that, and if you're going to mush, get used to Drama.

There are a host of single sphere games, and several upcoming games / young games for nWoD. Eldrich is the only one I'd recommend that I know of that are up and running -- Reno and Kingsmouth both have good reputations, but they're more limited in their scope and are not the massive sphere thing that Eldrich will someday (it is hoped) be. There's a splinter game off of TR called Safe Haven Harbor, but it's invite only and I can't say I'd recommend it to anyone who isn't already invested in it. I stress that this is not 'unofficial' or 'official' -- the people involved in creating it had every right to the material, whether or not The Reach folks agree with that. None of it was the Reach's stuff to begin with, and afaik the actual creator of TR is okay with SHH being out there.

The oWoD games that are big that I know of are City of Hope and New Prospect, which are essentially the same game. The reason they're big and popular is because they're open chargen, no BG required, no policing of the grid, no staff run plot, giant sandboxes, basically. I'd warn an new musher away from both of them purely because you need to go in with a skillset for finding RP and taking care of your own fun that are purely mushing skills. You'll pick them up elsewhere.

What I have seen is that a lot of the people fleeing TR are either going to Eldrich, Kingsmouth, or Reno, or they're leaving the genre entirely and branching off into non-WoD games. I've seen an influx of players on several non-WoD games, and one of them has blown up with people in direct relation to TR's nosedive.

Hope that's helpful. Eldrich is your best bet as a new player looking for a good nWoD game with sane, ethical staff and an above-average playerbase, I think. Both Reno and Kingsmouth are good, but they're more niche than Eldrich is.

ThatOneDude

@Miss-Demeanor Huh... I wonder if that speaks to the overall feeling I feel? Or, maybe I don't get the plot angles as much because they are mostly like the Fi events that are the person +3? Not advertised on the events?

I don't mind the game as a whole, and I'm sad my friends couldn't find hooks in. With Mayhem I do whatever and just see how things fall but this is my experience given as an opinion to this guy that asked. And as Coin said don't expect it to be more than it is?

Coin

but they're more limited in their scope and are not the massive sphere thing that Eldritch will someday (it is hoped) be.

Again. Not really our goal. We don't want to be a big game. I you, @Sunny, but if someone is hoping that, it's certainly not Eldritch's original staff. (I can´t speak for our newest members, but the fact remains.)

I, personally, would love to see more and more smaller games crop up. I want @EmmahSue's Mage-Hybrid to start, I would love for @tragedyjones to get off his lazy ass and make a pulp-as-fuck Promethean game only five people will play but whom will love it, I want your project off the ground, I want Requiem for Kingsmouth to continue appealing to the demographic it attracts, and I want someone, anyone, to kick Reno into gear with some consistent plot.

And yes, I want Fallcoast to open so the people who can't get their fix for certain spheres elsewhere can do so there.

I want more games, less bulk.

Silver

@Coin I hope Eldritch gets super massive because I kind of liked it when you were losing your mind. It was awesome.

Coin

@Silver said:

@Coin I hope Eldritch gets super massive because I kind of liked it when you were losing your mind. It was awesome.

I fucking hate you. Next scene I run for your character is going to be a Fire-Claimed in the middle of a leaky gas stop.

Sunny

@Coin said:

but they're more limited in their scope and are not the massive sphere thing that Eldritch will someday (it is hoped) be.

Again. Not really our goal. We don't want to be a big game. I you, @Sunny, but if someone is hoping that, it's certainly not Eldritch's original staff. (I can´t speak for our newest members, but the fact remains.)

Thanks for the spelling correction, I knew I had it wrong but I just woke up and was lazy. I know it's not your goal, and I was more referring to the intention of inclusion of spheres, rather than being a massive number of players beast.

Coin

@Sunny said:

@Coin said:

but they're more limited in their scope and are not the massive sphere thing that Eldritch will someday (it is hoped) be.

Again. Not really our goal. We don't want to be a big game. I you, @Sunny, but if someone is hoping that, it's certainly not Eldritch's original staff. (I can´t speak for our newest members, but the fact remains.)

Thanks for the spelling correction, I knew I had it wrong but I just woke up and was lazy. I know it's not your goal, and I was more referring to the intention of inclusion of spheres, rather than being a massive number of players beast.

Noted. On that front, I can say with certainy that we're also going to draw a limit at four spheres. No Mage. @Eerie was adamant that we have Changeling when it comes out, and I was adamant that we have only three spheres. We compromised.

Silver

@Coin I will replace my dead character with a neurotic South American guy whose only friends are words on a screen.

Coin

@Silver said:

@Coin I will replace my dead character with a neurotic South American guy whose only friends are words on a screen.

I told you, no fucking Mages. I don't care how South American it is.

Ganymede

@Miss-Demeanor said:

The hardest part, for me, is finding RP outside of plots. A lot of people are still kind of... hiding away in private rooms or the OOC room and being generally unresponsive to prompts for RP.

I have found the same for Eldritch, but it existed at Reno as well. I am open to RPing and running scenes for anyone that comes along to take the invitation. Sadly, like on Reno, few have taken it up.

If you like Vampire, Requiem for Kingsmouth is probably your best bet. It has a good contingent of international players, so you'll find people there playing all day long. That's good for me, as I play during business hours a lot. They have an Off-Screen System drawn from Damnation City which I believe generates its own RP without taxing staff too badly.

Coin

@Ganymede said:

@Miss-Demeanor said:

The hardest part, for me, is finding RP outside of plots. A lot of people are still kind of... hiding away in private rooms or the OOC room and being generally unresponsive to prompts for RP.

I have found the same for Eldritch, but it existed at Reno as well. I am open to RPing and running scenes for anyone that comes along to take the invitation. Sadly, like on Reno, few have taken it up.

This seems more like a wider phenomenon in general, yeah, which is sad. I'm happy to take people up for RP when I have time. I just... don't have time. I'm trying to make time, though, so hopefully it'll get better.

I've seen large groups playing, too. It's just not all the time. I don't know. We'll see what we can do to ameliorate this, but in general, this sort of thing is more of a player-side issue that needs to be addressed by players.