Windy City MUX question.



  • Idly, I was poking at mudstats, and noticed Windy City on the 'updated' list, so I got curious. It's actually still up apparently (though clearly quite dead). Logged on a guest bit to poke at it, and I'm just wondering about something. What game system/code did Windy City use or base off of for their +sheets and what not, or is it a unique system they made? For the people who actually played there, was it any good or no? (The mechanics, not the game itself.)


  • Pitcrew

    From what I remember from Wora discussions it was unique to the game. Never played so no clue how it works but if i remember right Whirly was behind it so on that I would give it a thumbs up.


  • Tutorialist

    @Tempest said:

    Idly, I was poking at mudstats, and noticed Windy City on the 'updated' list, so I got curious. It's actually still up apparently (though clearly quite dead). Logged on a guest bit to poke at it, and I'm just wondering about something. What game system/code did Windy City use or base off of for their +sheets and what not, or is it a unique system they made? For the people who actually played there, was it any good or no? (The mechanics, not the game itself.)

    It's unique. @Whirlwind messed a bunch with the original code and things. I could poke him and ask him if it can be given to other folks.

    It was... Not bad? But it wasn't ... good? Either. I think other than myself @JinShei (I could be wrong on that one) and @RDC not many people used the combat system on the game. Which, um, it was pretty loose all in all. You could use pretty much any skill if you could justify it.

    I had a werewolf ballerina who ended up being almost impossible to hit because had high high high acrobatics and I used it as my 'dodge' skill, instead uh... dodge?

    But @RDC used the combat way more than me, and might remember things.


  • Pitcrew

    COBALT CASTS SUMMON RDC. IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE.

    It's pretty impossible to separate whether WC's system was good from whether the staff was good; it was a very subjective system. I think, IIRC, that Surreality says the system was adapted from one she proposed for a game before WC existed? She said that they bastardized and ruined her original concept without permission if I'm remembering right. Anyway, the system was pretty horrible. It was broken in some real obvious ways.

    For example, buying up your Power stat was the most expensive thing you could do but had very little effect on your character post-CG; having a high power-stat at CG was totally staff discretion and gave you HUGE amounts of points; you could buy down your grossly inflated stats a tiny bit at the highest levels to buy tons of things at lower levels - so for example, Power would boost your Muscle, Reflexes, Toughness, and Senses by its amount. So before you add your Power stat to things you raise one of those up as high as possible. Then your power gets added. Say you buy almost nothing but Muscle and get it at 40, then you get a Power of 35-40. The max on the scale listed in the newsfiles was 50, but the system would actually go as high as you want, meaning your Muscle would now be ~80. Every interval of 10, the cost (I think, I don't remember for sure) would double, which means you could buy your Muscle back down to the max anyone could ever possibly expect to have without tweaking the system (50) and have enough points to buy basically everything else you could ever want.

    Whirlwind frequently vacillated back and forth as to whether this was an intended thing to let you make an old vampire with lots of skills, or a horrible abuse of the system, based on whether he liked you and your concept or not that day. The whole thing was grossly subjective. (Hilariously, the character I made that everyone thought was horribly twinked, I made in exactly the opposite way before I really realized the possibilities.)

    Once you got IC with those stats, there were completely illogical things. For example, a Necromancer who wasn't a human servant had a zero percent chance, by the book, of ever affecting a vampire or doing anything more with their abilities than raising more zombies than an animator. It was written as if they were supposed to be able to control weaker vampires...but the numbers were simply tuned to the point that it was absolutely impossible. There wasn't even a roll, it was just 'if your stat is higher than theirs, you can control them', and the stat could not possibly go over the lowest possible power of the weakest possible vampire.

    A human servant, however, could put trivially low points into Necromancy and have a 0% chance to fail to control any vampire on the game.

    A lot of the magic powers were more subjective than oWoD mage. Where they weren't subjective, though, was on the subject of faerie powers and silver. If you were carrying around about $50 worth of silver, your magic rapidly leapt up to 200-300% chance of success, meaning there was a functionally zero percent chance of any PC resisting your abilities, even if you had only 1 point in the magic skill. Thus, a faerie with life magic (which listed among the things it could do as '"turn you inside out", or permanently alter your body in the guy-into-frog or guy-into-girl or guy-into-looking-just-like-a-famous-serial-killer) could absolutely and with no chance of failure affect another person.

    Outside of specific powers being absolutely broken because whoever created the system couldn't do basic math, the combat rules were highyl subjective. Your chance of hitting another player in combat was a d100 roll (which is highly random), but you would frequently have a 20-30% chance to hit. Unless you used the obviously-intended subjective "circumstance bonuses". This meant you'd describe how you were hitting the person to make it seem more likely to whoever was running the combat that you'd land it, and that would boost your hit. Or describe how you were avoiding the hit in a way that made it seem less like you were going to be hit.

    It was a lot like Cowboys vs. Indians, but the "I hit you!" "Nuh unh!" was adjudicated by a third party, who was probably TSing one or the other of you. With some staffers on WC, it worked out. With others, it didn't.

    There were, however, some set modifiers. For example, the "multiple attackers" one. You could get a +20% to your attack chance, up to +80% for four helpers, for each dude you had piling on. This meant that hiring bodyguards (or being an animator) was by far the easiest way to straight up murder someone. Each attacker got the bonus, so in addition to the horrible situation of each of them getting a chance to whack you...you were also getting hit more often and harder, making a 5-on-1 (real easy to get with how liberal staff was at handing out NPCs for free to people they liked, and how easy it is to get zombies as an animator) a near-guaranteed win.

    Oh, and this is without the silly silver damage system. In Anitaverse, it takes longer to heal a wound from silver. Did Windy City want to track two different kinds of damage, one that healed fast and one that didn't? Nope. So they made silver do more damage. At 10 power (the smallest of betas), it was x2. At 20 (higher betas, an alpha who pissed off a staffer or who specifically requested being weak), x3. At 30 (shapeshifter alphas started at 25, vampire masters started here), x4. And so on. Since people who wanted epeen (you could +flash to show off how high your power was compared to others) loved buying up their power with XP, frequently the oldest/most powerful people would have power in the 40-50 range...and were tissue paper to silver ammo.

    AND GUNS. Guns had huge damage modifiers. Shotguns (including cheap ones you buy at Wal-mart) did quintuple damage. The defense stat against them was Observation. Most people didn't realize this - Power boosts your Senses, and so people used Senses for everything because it was high for free, forgetting Observation existed until they got shot at (and most people didn't know how the system worked so used Reflexes to dodge guns until you told them differently). So hitting people with guns was easy, and shotguns did x5 damage. Silver buckshot would often triple or quadruple that damage after the roll, thus making your damage 15-20 times what you rolled. Thus, getting shot with silver was often like dumping a bucket of icewater on an oldbie character who thought they were a combat badass because they never read the system files - they'd find that they were utterly incapable of actually defending themselves in a fight and they would die to one mediocre-rolled shot.

    It was a silly, broken system. I offered to help patch the holes, alter (or completely rewrite) stuff, and so on and so forth, and was tacitly accused of wanting to do so so I could twink better, despite the fact that I never, ever lost a fight on WC using the broken horrible system that even the longest-running staffers mostly hadn't read (but I had, because people kept trying to murder my characters for being MEEEEAN).

    Cobalt did a perfectly acceptable nWoD Anitaverse system, use that if you ever want to do Anitaverse.


  • Tutorialist

    I only remember two things:

    One: Ivy (me) used acrobatics to dodge MaryJane's attacks, and thus never had to accept that an alpha was her dominant (this was a shitty thing of me to do).

    Two: Amalia -- my faithful -- was insanely powerful. I think I may have been the only person who ever did much with them. But she included things like "immune to vampire powers". >.> This was bad of me. I am a bad person.



  • @RDC said:

    It's pretty impossible to separate whether WC's system was good from whether the staff was good; it was a very subjective system. I think, IIRC, that Surreality says the system was adapted from one she proposed for a game before WC existed? She said that they bastardized and ruined her original concept without permission if I'm remembering right. Anyway, the system was pretty horrible. It was broken in some real obvious ways.

    If it was adapted from the system created for Manifestation: Hong Kong, yep, that one was the horribly broken bastardization of mine. It sounds like it got worse from there, and it's hard to get worse than 'look we don't understand this crap we just want to write up spiffy powers to make us the specialest snowflakes so we can get on with our lesbian fairy sex, so here we're going with this version that removes the benefits of the system and leaves it horribly broken so we can get back to artificially inseminating one another with our magic nymph tongue-tentacles'.

    I wish I was kidding. I'm not kidding. :( I'm not even kidding a little.

    Edit: Oh -- and no, the creator of Windy City (whose RL name I know but I don't know what name she used on WC so I can't name the name here, sorry!) did NOT have permission to take the system written for M:HK, broken or not. :/

    Addendum on this one: The combat system wasn't my nightmare. I just had a core stat block at the time, without the combat system in place. I don't remember who did MHK's, so I have no idea what happened from there. (It may not even have had one to speak of; I don't even recall if MHK and the game it was based on were 'consent games with stats' or not, and they may very well have been.)


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