Potential Game / Temperature Read

Sunny

@auspice I'd second Witchcraft. It's the Unisystem (Buffy is Cinematic Unisystem, which is similar but not the same). Good system, solid rules, provides a good framework without being toooooooo limiting. I think it matches up decently tone wise, too.

As far as code goes...somebody has got to have a Buffy DB laying around somewhere. -.-

Jennkryst

WoD as a baseline for Magicians could work; you literally just make people buy a rote for every damn spell they want to do, with little to no creative thaumaturgy outside of that.

WTFE

I'll add a vote for Magician, and for system I'd suggest Word Mill's Mythic.

Pandora

I'll throw in a vote for Magician, and a vote against WoD as a system.

Collective

Oh god. Please don't go with the Storyteller/ing system.

I will read the books to play on a good game. I will watch the series. But if I have to face WoD character gen one more time, I will cry manly tears of frustration and horror.

Like D&D, WoD is kind of its own genre and the rules only work to support playing that genre, in my opinion. And even then, only sorta-kinda work.

As much as I loved TT RPGs like Adventure!, Trinity and Scion, they showed how bad that system can be when used outside the very specific story needs of the World of Darkness.

Auspice

@wtfe said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

I'll add a vote for Magician, and for system I'd suggest Word Mill's Mythic.

I've also not heard of this system. Got a link / PDF?

I'm happy to vet other systems. I'd prefer to. Because I honestly don't want to use WoD, even a streamlined version.

Arkandel

@auspice Suggestion: Whatever system you choose, make sure the material is easy to find (free and available online is probably the best bet, else popular is almost as good).

If players need to find (more so, buy) five different obscure splatbooks to play a brand new game they don't even know if they will like... they probably won't.

Collective

And by the way, to add something more than complaining, here is a link to the official (and free) Witchcraft RPG core book. It would be available for all your players to download legally.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/692/CJ-Carrellas-WitchCraft?it=1

WTFE

@Arkandel: One of the advantages to Mythic is that its core mechanism is literally one table. If players know only that table and a three-step method, they know the game enough to play it.

@Auspice: PM me and I'll hook you up.

Auspice

@arkandel said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

@auspice Suggestion: Whatever system you choose, make sure the material is easy to find (free and available online is probably the best bet, else popular is almost as good).

If players need to find (more so, buy) five different obscure splatbooks to play a brand new game they don't even know if they will like... they probably won't.

Oh yeah, for sure. I hate going through PDFs in general, so easy is important.

DarkDeleria

@Auspice: here's another link to a free copy of Witchcraft and it's system:

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/the_grove/Witchcraft.pdf

As I've heard several people disdain's for WoD/ST system, I can understand. It's just a system that I know a bit more than other RP systems. If I played D&D or RIFTs as much as I play WoD games, I'd probably have initially recommended those because of my familiarity/bias with those systems.

I'm all for K.I.S.S when it comes to game systems. Especially for those that want to play/get involved w/o having to struggle with calculus.

Auspice

I play WoD, but I hate STing in it. I just don't find it enjoyable to ST in at all. And that's a bad thing when I want to run a game.

BSU people can attest to the fact that I will, when inspired, ST a lot! And I'm generally down to run stuff on request for friends on other games.

But I don't enjoy STing in WoD. I'll do it. I've been told I'm good at it. But I have absolutely no enjoyment and when I do, it's just to make someone else happy. So that makes any form of it likely a no go for a game I'm running.

(Unless I someday convince people to work on a Hunter-only MU* and then I'd ST ridiculous things for TFV all day long. But that's another thread.)

Arkandel

@auspice The one thing I like about WoD is that it's ... I don't want to say popular, but common. Lots of players know it to a certain degree, which makes adoption a lot easier, and experienced players can educate newer ones.

It does have its drawbacks, and on top of those there's also the fact it's been in use for so long folks are tired of it, or make negative assertions about it ("a magic system will be broken/too powerful since it'll be like Mage").

faraday

If you set aside the superpower stuff, I really don't see the appreciable difference between FS3 and nWoD. The die mechanics are virtually identical (just d8 vs d10), the skills work the same (attr + skill + mods), and chargen is only slightly different (fixed skill list vs. freeform background skills).

Where WoD gets complicated is with merits and flaws (which you could easily just ditch if you hate them as much as I do) and superpowers.

"But Fara, we have to consider superpower stuff for a Magicians game." Sure, but the existing WoD mage system doesn't fit and FS3 has no magic system, so either way you're going to end up cooking up something custom. Just cook up something simple and it shouldn't matter which system you use.

(Unless of course you plan on doing mass combats, then FS3 offers significant benefits.)

Auspice

@faraday said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

If you set aside the superpower stuff, I really don't see the appreciable difference between FS3 and nWoD.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree.

FS3, to notice something: +roll Alertness
nWoD: Wits + Composure + any additional stuff from merits, which may include an 8- or 9-again... and so on.

When I 'run' in nWoD, I have to keep this on hand: http://files.meetup.com/3797562/Cheat Sheet - nWoD Master.pdf

Another example from there:
nWoD: Foot Chase- Stamina + Athletics + eq bonus vs. Stamina + Athletics + eq bonus, extended and contested
FS3: roll name/Athletics vs name/Athletics

When I ST on FS3, I just keep a character sheet in view as a quick-ref for skills. I'll often reference PC sheets before the scene so I know any useful BG skills they have. That's it. That is all I need.

I don't need multiple books (some of which contradict one another) or cheatsheets.

faraday

@auspice I think you missed the part where I said "ditch merits if you hate them as much as I do". My first chargen on B5 was based on WoD and it was a big inspiration for FS3 so I know how similar they are. But we can just agree to disagree.

ETA: in FS3 the system it's also rolling brawn+athletics, it's just that the code doesn't make you type the attribute when it's the obvious one. You could do the same with your wod code. So the mechanics are indeed identical outside of modifiers from powers or merits.

Auspice

Well, that goes back to the 'I don't code.'

I know you aren't, but it almost feels like you're saying 'don't run a game unless you can code your own system from scratch'?

Because I said at the very beginning I wanted a system that's simple and doesn't need to be coded anew.

faraday

@auspice I was contrasting FS3 and WoD, both of which are systems that exist in 'ready-made' MUSH form. And unfortunately, you're going to need to know how to code at least a little bit to expand either of them for a Magicians game. FS3 would probably work out-of-the-box for Expanse though if you wait for Ares. If you use it on Penn, you still need to know at least some code just to get it installed and set up.

Three-Eyed Crow

I mean, it's all dice pools at the end of the day.

The things I think FS3 does to facilitate STing (and I think these are very important) are open +sheets, public and easily linkable documentation that's the same for everybody (nobody gets a mechanical advantage because they spent $30 on The Sniper Splat or some such). The chargen code is also very easy to customize and it's functional after install, whereas Random Homemade Chargen for even a simple system build around d6s/d8s/etc. is...often not functional.

Auspice

@faraday said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

@auspice I was contrasting FS3 and WoD, both of which are systems that exist in 'ready-made' MUSH form. And unfortunately, you're going to need to know how to code at least a little bit to expand either of them for a Magicians game. FS3 would probably work out-of-the-box for Expanse though if you wait for Ares. If you use it on Penn, you still need to know at least some code just to get it installed and set up.

I can work with existing code and hobble together stuff, but developing an all-new system (or adapting one) to a game?

There's experienced coders out there who won't go near that.