What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?

[Pyrephox]

@Livia Once or twice, when I want to remind myself to go out and find someone new to play with. A lot of times, I will make my next aspiration directly after a scene when one has been fulfilled, because THAT SCENE suggested something fun to do next. Often with that character, but sometimes just in general.

[Livia]

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Livia Once or twice, when I want to remind myself to go out and find someone new to play with. A lot of times, I will make my next aspiration directly after a scene when one has been fulfilled, because THAT SCENE suggested something fun to do next. Often with that character, but sometimes just in general.

But how many do you realistically get through a week?

[Pyrephox]

@Livia said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Livia Once or twice, when I want to remind myself to go out and find someone new to play with. A lot of times, I will make my next aspiration directly after a scene when one has been fulfilled, because THAT SCENE suggested something fun to do next. Often with that character, but sometimes just in general.

But how many do you realistically get through a week?

Depends on how much RP I get. The only CoD game I'm on, getting any RP at all is pretty hard, and I've been faded myself with work stuff, so none in the last few weeks. But before that? 3-4 a week, assuming a scene a day. Fewer scenes, usually fewer Aspirations (although sometimes you get lucky!)

[Livia]

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

Depends on how much RP I get. The only CoD game I'm on, getting any RP at all is pretty hard, and I've been faded myself with work stuff, so none in the last few weeks. But before that? 3-4 a week, assuming a scene a day. Fewer scenes, usually fewer Aspirations (although sometimes you get lucky!)

I get that it varies, based on activity and availability, sure. But that still feels like so much 'paperwork' to me.

[Arkandel]

@Livia said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

Depends on how much RP I get. The only CoD game I'm on, getting any RP at all is pretty hard, and I've been faded myself with work stuff, so none in the last few weeks. But before that? 3-4 a week, assuming a scene a day. Fewer scenes, usually fewer Aspirations (although sometimes you get lucky!)

I get that it varies, based on activity and availability, sure. But that still feels like so much 'paperwork' to me.

YMMV.

My experience is that a significantly smaller number of people files for aspirations at all than those who do.

The ironic thing about that is, on games with a limited XP 'income' in general that alone creates disparities due to diminishing returns.

[Livia]

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Livia said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Pyrephox said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

Depends on how much RP I get. The only CoD game I'm on, getting any RP at all is pretty hard, and I've been faded myself with work stuff, so none in the last few weeks. But before that? 3-4 a week, assuming a scene a day. Fewer scenes, usually fewer Aspirations (although sometimes you get lucky!)

I get that it varies, based on activity and availability, sure. But that still feels like so much 'paperwork' to me.

YMMV.

My experience is that a significantly smaller number of people files for aspirations at all than those who do.

The ironic thing about that is, on games with a limited XP 'income' in general that alone creates disparities due to diminishing returns.

Of course. But with it tied to XP I feel like I'm hurting myself if I don't maximize it. I'm gamey/competitive enough to want to maximize things.

[Ganymede]

For a MUSH, I don’t really mind if the Aspiration system were pulled, but you really have to have Conditions for CoD to work properly.

[Arkandel]

@Ganymede said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

For a MUSH, I don’t really mind if the Aspiration system were pulled, but you really have to have Conditions for CoD to work properly.

I think it works fine. There's no reason to not have it there, especially since there are legitimate uses for it.

The thing is many players don't like filing for things on a near constant basis. That gives an advantage to those who do.

The answer should be a system that rewards XPs in different ways and caps or puts the weekly behind diminishing returns so some players can't dip their toes into every pool to get ahead.

[Groth]

@Ganymede said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

For a MUSH, I don’t really mind if the Aspiration system were pulled, but you really have to have Conditions for CoD to work properly.

I think having Aspirations in some form is helpful if only because it's a reminder that your character should be wanting to achieve something with regularity.

[Derp]

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

The thing is many players don't like filing for things on a near constant basis. That gives an advantage to those who do.

I mean, I agree with the 'get xp from various sources but make sure it is capped' part.

The quoted part, though, I'm not so sure about. That's like saying 'players don't like being in scenes, and shouldn't get advantages over those that do'.

There is a certain point where you just kind of have to say 'well, this is the system and the way advancement works, so if you opt out, you lose out'.

[Arkandel]

@Derp said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

The quoted part, though, I'm not so sure about. That's like saying 'players don't like being in scenes, and shouldn't get advantages over those that do'.

What's to be uncertain about the idea two people can be in the same scene but only one of them likes to file aspirations about it afterwards?

[Derp]

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

What's to be uncertain about the idea two people can be in the same scene but only one of them likes to file aspirations about it afterwards?

Because that's a part of the advancement system, the same as plot xp. It's not 'tedious extra step', it is 'basic mechanic of the game system'.

Basically, it's an important part of the game, just like advancing through plots and ST'd scenes would be, so I'm not sure that I want to reward people for not engaging with it.

[Pyrephox]

In this, I agree with Derp. Aspirations require a tweak of thinking, but it's a tweak that I think nWoD games in particular seem to really need. Because there's a real tendency for WoD games to die because //nobody does anything//. People just sit OOC and chat about what they could do, or about niche character concepts.

Anything, ANYTHING that creates an incentive for people to get out and start actually playing the game rather than talking about the game or redesigning their wiki page is a net positive.

[Auspice]

I have to disagree that aspirations encourage RP. I think they actually discourage it.

It's more work, for one. You don't just organically RP and earn XP. If your scene pings an aspiration, then you need to submit code to fulfill it and submit code to claim another.

And that if is a big factor, too. If your aspirations are 'meet someone new' and 'get into a fight' and the only RP being offered is from people your PC already knows to hang out and drink coffee....... well, you're just gonna sit OOC until one of the 'net gain' options comes along, right?

So I think that it actually causes additional barriers to RP. Long-term asps are fine and I think smart ones, milled over time for XP ('Cruac to 5' - get a bump every time you buy a new dot in Cruac, RP a scene learning it/about it, etc.) are perfect. But short-terms, I think, cause this scenario in which people feel they absolutely must achieve one every scene to keep up with the XP overachievers and so they sit around waiting for scenes they know they can achieve one or two in a fell swoop.

[Derp]

@Auspice said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

feel they absolutely must achieve one every scene to keep up with the XP overachievers

Which is why there is a cap on totals.

@Auspice said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

and so they sit around waiting for scenes

This part is the problem. Your aspirations are not passive. They are active. You shouldn't be "sitting around waiting," you should be using them as tools to go out and do things, find people, get RP. Etc.

If you're using aspirations as a passive tool that just requires more paperwork, then you aren't actually using them to good effect.

[Pyrephox]

@Auspice said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

I have to disagree that aspirations encourage RP. I think they actually discourage it.

It's more work, for one. You don't just organically RP and earn XP. If your scene pings an aspiration, then you need to submit code to fulfill it and submit code to claim another.

And that if is a big factor, too. If your aspirations are 'meet someone new' and 'get into a fight' and the only RP being offered is from people your PC already knows to hang out and drink coffee....... well, you're just gonna sit OOC until one of the 'net gain' options comes along, right?

I'd argue that this last idea is outright poisonous to games. The idea of "I'm just gonna wait until X comes along," rather than going out and DOING X is pretty much exactly the wrong way to go about things.

And that's not a system problem. That's a player problem. And a problem player, if only in the passive sense of you know that's the person who is also sitting in the OOC room complaining about not getting RP, but also shooting down every RP idea that isn't exactly what they were looking for.

Just. Go out. Get into some trouble. Stop worrying so goddamn much and play the game.

[Auspice]

If you have only 1-2 days a week you can RP and you know Bob over there, RPing daily, is hitting the XP cap every week and people are making it really obvious ('yeah you'll need like, 20 dice to be able to manage this PRP') that you NEED MORE XP......

chances are yes, you're gonna be picky about going out to RP. You won't want to just do 'another bar/coffee shop/bookstore run-in' - you're gonna want things with more meat to them, particularly ones that can net you XP.

not everyone can just run out and RP for hours every day. Some of us can only get RP in on weekends.

[Pyrephox]

@Auspice Which is why Aspirations are great? If you only have one or two scenes a week, you can actually think, "What would be fun to do with my limited time," write up literally two sentences for two short-term Aspirations, and then go out and make it happen.

Asp 1: Meet someone new.
Asp 2: Get in a fight.

pub Hey, anyone want to meet a new character in a bar brawl? I can set us up a scene.

[Lisse24]

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

See the issue isn't whether there's a ST explicitly tossing plot around. It's the idea that players know in advance plot is available and, more importantly, when it will happen. There's a time and a place involved, so if they show up they are going to participate in... something.

In my opinion that kind of pre-scheduled 'plot scene' is almost universally horrible for everyone involved because it's just too many players in the same place at the same time. Unless the game is extremely small, I think it makes more sense to handle the plot like Arx does it where it by and large happens discreetly through bluebooking, private scenes and story emits.

^^^^This.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Livia
The way RFK handled those beats was pretty manageable.
https://requiemforkingsmouth.fandom.com/wiki/Character_Advancement

I loved the way RfK handled beats. It's the only time it ever worked for me on a game. If I remember correctly, you could claim a beat for a short-term aspiration without having to toss that aspiration and think up a new one, which would solve much of the issue people seem to have with short-term aspirations.

[Arkandel]

@Derp said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

If you're using aspirations as a passive tool that just requires more paperwork, then you aren't actually using them to good effect.

I get it. You like aspirations and there's nothing wrong with that, or with using the code to file them.

My point here is that there are players - many - who don't. You don't get to fix people until they fit your system, though. No amount of explaining why this would be good for them if only will do any good past a certain point.

You have to either accept they won't (which is a legitimate option) or try to diversify the XP 'incomes' so that different playstyles are supported. Then, assuming there are diminishing returns so super competitive/active players don't break the bank, each can use whatever works for them and coexist on the same game; some go participate in PrPs, others use aspirations, etc.