Wheel of Time MU*
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Hey,
I haven't played in a MUSH in years. I'm not sure if that means I'm retired or not, but I do know when there was an ad for a WoT MU* yesterday I felt nostalgic and got interested.
That game is going in a different direction than I liked, and best of luck to them. I am wondering however if there is interest in putting together a different one.
What I can offer: Hosting for free, technical support (installing and maintaining something like Ares), advice when asked, playing there.
What I cannot offer: Coding, staffing on a day-to-day basis, actually owning the game - someone else would need to be The Person.
If there is interest please reach out.
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I fully support the making of more games!
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I don't know if I have it in me to be involved in staffing another fan game, but I am definitely interested in playing a WoT game at the moment. (I am playing on Derp's game, too, just because I'm interested in what the theme is like without so much use of the One Power. It's an interesting idea to me.)
In another game though, I would like to see a few things done differently.
1. Books informing most of the theme setup. While I do like the show for itself, there are a number of ways it left me disappointed as a fan of the books (<insert nerdy rant>). I do understand that drawing from the books can be more difficult to sell as a starting point since there are so many, but that's a challenge that can be overcome with good wiki documentation. (Also, a lot of book information is online, so maybe not so much of a challenge as one might think?)
2. More focus on channelers, their problems, and their affects on others. The One Power is very central in the story, from the people who can wield it to those who can't and are suspicious of everyone who can. And, while channelers are often portrayed and thought of as overpowered, they can still die from a well-placed arrow. (I seem to recall that being specifically pointed out in New Spring.) Even in the show, we see Aes Sedai get hurt and die. I think a well-thought-out system in a MU can account for the idea that, while powerful, they aren't all-powerful and shouldn't always have plot armor. Maybe a pro and con type choice in CG?
3. A time period that isn't represented in other games and maybe also not the Fourth Age either. This would likely come down to interest and what inspires the staff, of course. I think choosing a time period in which we don't know a great deal of the history could be a good idea, or perhaps one in which major events that have an impact on the setting of the book could be interesting.
Anyways, all that to say, I don't know if I would staff, but I would definitely help test and maybe even write a few room descs if I can get inspired.
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I think at this point two roles would be absolutely essential. Then we can talk specifics.
- Someone to own the game. I won't do it - I don't want to.
- A coder, hopefully experienced or willing to learn Ares/Evennia well enough to customize things for the setting. I'll do all the heavy lifting from a sysadmin perspective, automate backups, maintain the host, set up anything needed - but I don't currently have the inclination to put a dev hat on again.
Any takers?
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
- Someone to own the game. I won't do it - I don't want to.
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@arkandel I have given a bit of thought to a WoT (and homebrew) setting using Evennia, but it would require a considerable time investment in the coding because I would want a channeling system that works based on implications from the books. (Some weaves are implied to be composed of parts that serve a function, such as Romanda thinking that the weave for detecting male channeling resembled the one for testing for resonance, suggesting that certain formulations of the Power do similar things. Another sister comments that Rand's use of saidar at the taint cleansing made no sense, suggesting there is a building block for how weaves work.)
The tl;dr of the system would be something kind of alchemical. You are taught/learned basic parts and weaves are a specific permutation of those parts, and the sum total requires a certain amount of the Power and/or Flow strength.
I would be absolutely wretched at running a game though. I know myself well enough that I would have a hard time dealing with the myriad issues.
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@dvoraen and @Arkandel You might ask @Seraphim73, as he has quite a knowledge set on how to adapt FS3 for all manner of themes much to Fara's BIG SIGHS.
He's made it work for magic on three different themes so far (futuristic fantasy, Dieselpunk fantasy, and urban fantasy). He at least knows the limitations and how to step around some of those limitations.While I do not have the time to RUN a game, I am happy to PLAY on a Wheel of Time MUSH.
Also, I also offer my CSS for Ares skills.
whispers I like the pretty.
EDITED: omg, I should not type before coffee
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@girlcalledblu said in Wheel of Time MU*:
he has quite a knowledge set on how to adapt FS3 for all manner of themes much to Fara's BIG SIGHS.
He's made it work for magic on three different themes so far (futuristic fantasy, Dieselpunk fantasy, and urban fantasy).I would kinda go the other route and recommend either scrapping FS3 and creating your own system, or maybe asking @Tat for SL's system.
FS3 can be adapted for magic. But it's really not meant for people throwing fireballs and pulling down mountainsides.
Old MUSH WoT games tended to have limited stats coded - you would get powers on a scale of 1-10, for example, but there were no integrated combat systems and what-not - and relied heavily on storytelling for magic users.
Ares would be awesome for Wheel of Time. FS3 is probably going to be an uncomfortable fit.
$0.02
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@girlcalledblu said in Wheel of Time MU*:
@dvoraen and @Arkandel You might ask @Seraphim73, as he has quite a knowledge set on how to adapt FS3 for all manner of themes much to Fara's BIG SIGHS.
Well, @Seraphim73 , what do you say?
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Twice and twice shall @Seraphim73 be named
Twice to give theme advice, and twice to give FS3 advice -
Kind of sounds like something that would be right up his alley, and I'd be interested to see what sort of coding comes out of that.
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That wasn't me waiting to be named thrice, I promise. Just running errands and getting breakfast.
You -could- do a version of Wheel of Time with FS3, but like @krmbm said, FS3 isn't really designed for something like WoT. Any relatively-stock implementation of FS3 for WoT would massively water down channeling. Using some version of @Tat's spell system from Spirit Lake would actually get you a good portion of the way there, but there would still need to be some pretty extensive code additions. Off the top of my head:
- Allowing multiple elemental flows and overall Power rating to be used as prerequisites to a single spell.
- Slicing weaves/shielding that allows for a defense (maybe all weaves work like melee attacks where you get Channeling+Reflexes or +Wits as a defense, since that would still give non-channelers the same or similar defense as ranged attacks?).
- Splitting weaves for multiple attacks without using the explosive type (explosive attacks auto-target a single location, which you wouldn't want for multiple weaves).
- Exhaustion/overdrawing system for channeling.
- Broader range of Power ratings than the standard 1-4 Attribute.
... um, I'm sure I could come up with more additions with more than 10 minutes of thought, but that's just what I'd have right off the bat.
And I can't code that. Heck, I couldn't even get my brain in gear to code a simple mana system.
And none of this is going to solve the problem of "channelers are just flat-out better than anyone but the sneakiest non-channeler."
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@krmbm said in Wheel of Time MU*:
Ares would be awesome for Wheel of Time. FS3 is probably going to be an uncomfortable fit.
Yep. From the docs:
FS3 is designed and optimized for games that are:
- Near-Modern - Regular humans in a tech level not too unlike our own (no magic, super powers, augmentation, energy shields or death rays).
- Cooperative - Players who are on the same team (PvE).
- Focused - A narrow focus on what action mechanics can be detailed and/or automated through code.
None of that sounds particularly well-suited to a WoT game.
There are several other skill systems Ares supports, or you can use that code as a model to craft your own.
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@seraphim73 I think a compromise would need to be made in coding a channeling system so that its essence is captured (Saidin/Saidar, who weaves are visible to, strengths in the different flow types, learning weaves versus being a wilder, etc). It doesn't need to capture every nuance of it.
In regards to power, that should be more manageable if the actual book limitations are placed on a game. The vast majority of channelers aren't anywhere near Nynaeve or Rand; they are not even at Moiraine's level. Couple that with a tangible risk of overchanneling while fatigued and it's not nearly as bad. Whitecloaks killed Aes Sedai on the regular and it's not like thousands of them died in each attempt.
But anyway the real question would be... we're still short of at least someone to take over the project and lead it.
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I haven't read the wheel of time books in some time but I'm happy to help with theme stuff and building stuff. Not so much with the code stuff.
I dunno if that would make me 'lead' or whatever, though.
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@arkandel Oh, what I listed was already a pretty major compromise on channeling in my mind. You can compromise wherever you want on the spectrum from "channeling works like arrows" to "massive in-depth system that gets every nuance right," I was aiming for something right about in the middle of that. I would say that the nuances between Saidin and Saidar can be handled via RP, and same with who weaves are visible to. Learning weaves versus being a wilder wouldn't need to be coded, just handled via House Rules on learning weaves.
Also, sure, Whitecloaks killed Aes Sedai without losing thousands of them, but if you lose a dozen men to kill a single Aes Sedai and her Warder (and I think the number is likely to be a little higher than that unless it's an -awesome- ambush), that suuuuucks on a PC-scale. And it's a major power imbalance if one pair of PCs can kill 12-20 NPCs before they get killed pretty regularly, while a pair of non-channeling PCs can kill... I don't know, 5? 6? NPCs before they get killed, depending on how the dice go.
Also, as @faraday points out... WoT definitely isn't what FS3 is designed for. Even just with my suggestions above, we're beyond Faraday's Simple Skill System.
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I think you can do a narrowly-focused, cooperative Wheel of Time game, accepting that it wouldn't be the game everyone would want (lol) but the magic that feels canonical is definitely where it breaks down for FS3 unless someone has time to do extensive recoding (and if you're making the decision to use FS3 you usually don't want to do extensive recoding).
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I mean, I hesitate to say this, I do, but...
Couldn't you superhero mush it? Does it HAVE to be coded and diced really extensively, or even to the same level as other things? Could it be distilled down to 1 or 2 rolls, a +damage command, and then descriptiveness / ST oversight / consent / trust?
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I would treat it like a table top, there's a guide out there that I think would work. Then there's no extensive coding, you just dice 2d20 and have at it.
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@sunny It absolutely could be run like that. Heck, the game that @Arkandel and I played on for... 20 years? Something like that, ended up having (essentially) 3 stats: Channeling Strength, Channeling Finesse, and Weaponmastery. All you did was compare those things and pose accordingly. That had its own issues (you "tested" with Staff to get and raise those stats, so there was room for a TON of favoritism), but it was nice and simple.
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@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time MU*:
@sunny It absolutely could be run like that. Heck, the game that @Arkandel and I played on for... 20 years? Something like that, ended up having (essentially) 3 stats: Channeling Strength, Channeling Finesse, and Weaponmastery. All you did was compare those things and pose accordingly. That had its own issues (you "tested" with Staff to get and raise those stats, so there was room for a TON of favoritism), but it was nice and simple.
This is pretty much what Dev and I decided to do.
We get that it isn't the super dooper complicated channeling system from the books but also:
- way before the books and
- not really focused on channeling anyway
So it's really just treated like another skill with guidelines on what weaves are available and what they end up doing.
Hell, we only barely use the FS3 coded combat and just do more story-based resolutions with custom die rolls.
You absolutely can use FS3 to do WoT but if your major focus is channeling and getting everything absolutely perfect with it then yeah, that's gonna be a lot of overhead.
