Best posts made by n0q

@Runescryer
I headwizzed an OC comic book MU running M&M 3e for a little over three years (Project Prometheus). By the end of our run, some of us were still quite happy with 3e, while others absolutely wished to chuck the whole fucking thing into the ocean. 3e honestly feels like it's meant for a particular TYPE of comic book style of play. It's all explosions and zero tension, unlike the far more interesting (IMO) 2e, which at least gives a GM room to challenge his players. Unlike 3e, the PCs can lose in 2e.

Your chief problem tends to be the Hero Point/Villain Point system, which creates an asymmetric environment where one side gets a large number of 'do-overs' and general invitation to step outside of the rules as needed. If it's done correctly, heroes will generate HPs throughout the combat because they should be nailing their complications. They spend them as desired and get to do all sorts of heroic things. Villain Points are supposed to be the GM's response to HPs, but they just don't work very well because spending a VP against a PC gives that character a HP as a consolation.

It sounds good on paper. In practice, it's obnoxious and terrible for any sense of tension.

• Hero attacks villain and misses. Hero spends a HP for a reroll with advantage. Almost certainly hits.

• Hero attacks villain and misses. Hero spends a HP for a reroll with advantage. Almost certainly hits. GM spends a VP to mitigate the damage, and awards the hero an HP. Hero... spends an HP and attacks again.

• Villain attacks hero and misses. GM spends a VP for a reroll with advantage, immediately awarding player with an HP. Villain hits, hero immediately spends an HP to mitigate the damage (gosh. Who could've seen that coming?)

• GM decides he wants to create an area attack where there wasn't one before. GM is an idiot. This one action means every PC in the blast earns a HP. For fuck's sake. No. Stop it.

It rapidly becomes apparent that either the GM has to accept that villain points are just for show, or the GM has to be very, very careful about when he or she spends a point.

It's even stacked from the beginning. In any given game, there are a lot more HPs on the table than VPs. I forget the formula, but most PCs will have 2-3 HP and the GM will probably have something like 4-5 VP. In a 4 PC game, that's 12 HP and 5 VP at the start. This wouldn't be so bad (the heroes should usually win, so what's the harm of helping them out?) if it weren't for the reflexive nature of spending a VP and that the heroes are going to get more. It can easily get out of hand.

At the very least, you really should regress to the 2e HP system. I haven't even touched on the fact that due to this absurdly asymmetrical reroll mechanic, all the luck powers ONLY WORK PROPERLY with heroes (and are utterly broken as fuck).

Then you'll find all sorts of other weird and wonderful idio(syncra)cies in the combat feats. I forget the names of the combat feat and can't be assed to look for a book or pdf, but there's some feat that allows you to make an additional attack if you drop a minion. This has been with M&M since the beginning. The difference is that in 2e, it had a melee requirement. In 3e, they don't care how you do it. Melee, ranged, area, it's all the same.

In practice, this means the last place on earth any villain ever wants to stand is ANYWHERE NEAR HIS MINIONS. Seriously. Stay the fuck away from me, man. You drop an area burst right on that villain and hit like 10 minions, too. Villain makes a damage save along with 10 minions. Let's say he loses 3 minions. OK... so, that feat says you get to do it again! Now the villain and his 7 minions make another round of damage saves. Drop 3 more minions, right? You see where this is going. Not only is this stupid as hell, but the entire thing is completely asymmetrical.

In 3 years of GMing 3rd ed, I don't believe I ever had a team of PCs lose a combat. It never even came close. The only way I could challenge players was by facing them with unfair PL/PP totals, and that's just bullshit. We errata'd a bunch of things, but I feel we should've gone way the fuck overboard.

3e looks good, but it's not really much better than traits. That said, it's actually a great system if you want to go with some sort of edgy 'if you lose, you are dead' setup. It looks scary to the players, but they can't possibly lose. 2e is a gem and I highly recommend you look it over. I'd use that over 3e. Just my two cents.

@Runescryer

You aren't actually writing a comic book; you're running a game. The narrative is similar but the goal is not.

Man, ain't that the truth.

I've staffed OC comic book games (all running the M&M ruleset) for probably something like 10 years. There's a pretty reliable pattern to how the 'tropes' thing has played out in my personal experience. I expect your NPCs to adhere to the proper tropes, while the PCs are... well, players ultimately want their characters to succeed. In the absence of source material to function as an appeal to authority, PCs are somewhat free to do whatever is most efficient for them.

Note this goes beyond killing characters. That's a worst case scenario and is easily dealt with: Remind them of the specific style of comic book you're going for, lay out some ground-rules, be stern but fair with individuals who will inevitably attempt to be special by behaving as if they exist under a different set of comic book sensibilities.

But no. Your real problem is likely to be more along the lines of players not wanting to do the illogical stuff that make comic books worlds function as intended. There's no real way to combat this without taking control away from players (a terrible idea). The best you can do is make certain that you are absolutely, 100 percent crystal clear what TYPE of comic book world you are doing. That means you cannot rely on era titles (especially not four color, which appears to mean something different to everyone who hears it). Your setting and feel is absolutely vital. Communicate it clearly and consistently, or you're going to have dead villains, lawsuits, and so on. Voltron WILL fire his ultimate weapon first.

God forbid you allow villainous PCs. Comic books simply do not work unless the villain is shackled by tropes.

Just something to be aware of. Might not happen to you, but it was an issue for me. I had to be very meticulous on my last game to prevent it from causing issues.

@Arkandel said in New Superhero Game Looking for Staff/Feedback:

Is telenuke a thing for M&M?

Unless you refuse to approve it, pretty much anything is a thing in M&M. Spitballing off the top of my head (so this won't be perfect)...

INDIRECT (FLAT 1-4 POINTS)
A ranged effect with this modifier can originate from a point other than the user, ignoring cover between the user and the target, such as walls and other intervening barriers, so long as they do not provide cover between the effect’s origin point and the target. An Indirect effect normally originates from a fixed point directed away from you. In some cases, an Indirect effect may count as a surprise attack (see Surprise Attack).

Indirect 1: the effect originates from a fixed point away from you.
Indirect 2: the effect can come from any point away from you or a fixed point in a fixed direction (not away from you).
Indirect 3: The effect can come from any point in a fixed direction (not away from you) or a fixed point in any direction.
Indirect 4: The effect can originate from any point and aim in any direction, including towards you (hitting a target in front of you from behind, for example).

Telenuke: Attack X, Range: Perception, Indirect 4 (3pp/rank + 4)

Perception: The effect works on any target you can perceive with an accurate sense, without any need for an attack check. If you cannot accurately perceive the target, you cannot affect it.

Now add a sensory power to the character that lets the character perceive radio waves, see through cover, see through cellphones, whatever. Buy 2 or 4 ranks of Accurate. For extra fun, apply a flaw to it: "Flaw: Only works with Telenuke" Take that sensory power from 1pp/rank to 0.5pp/rank.

Quite legal. You'd be insane or incompetent to approve it.

EDIT: Added indirect.

@ThatGuyThere
Yep. It gets used as an appeal to nostalgia, and a lazy one at that. Four Color is supposed to mean 'classic superheroes' half the time it's used. OP is using the term, too. I really think he needs to be a lot more specific, or that will bite him on the ass, later. Maybe pick a particular superhero, or team, or at least a publisher, and specify an era, with examples. Something like, "A 1950s Superman feel." or "In the spirit of 1960s Avengers" or whatever.

Otherwise, they're going to get the kitchen sink. And since players always trend towards wanting their characters to stand out, they will begin to outweird one another. 'Four Color' games invariably seem to degenerate into some kind of LSD Supertrip with flying dragons and anthropomorphic nazi penguin cyborgs. It just takes time for the players to slowly push the boundaries.

@Runescryer , be specific.