Are MU* videogames


  • Admin

    Hey,

    Do you consider MU* to be video games?

    That's all!


  • Politics

    No.



  • No, there's no video component. Are you still drunk, this morning?


  • Admin

    @Kanye-Qwest There's text. Text adventures used to be considered video games, and were celebrated as such.

    I'm just asking what you think though.


  • Politics

    @Arkandel said in Are MU* videogames:

    There's text. Text adventures used to be considered video games, and were celebrated as such.

    No.


  • Admin

    @Ganymede said in Are MU* videogames:

    @Arkandel said in Are MU* videogames:

    There's text. Text adventures used to be considered video games, and were celebrated as such.

    No.

    Don't you make me bust out the wikipedia link, lawyer-bot! I'll do it!



  • I'd say no. I used to play a lot of text adventures (Infocom, hooray!) but I wouldn't have called them video games, either. I called them computer games. For me a video game has to focus more on the visual presentation. I think it's fair to call MU*s a kind of 'computer game' also, but without further description you'd be glossing over what I'd consider the most important aspects.


  • Coder

    Of course they are. "Video game" is just a term for playing a game on a video device - originally a TV, today a monitor. It's very generic and definitely includes text games.
    .
    Griatch


  • Pitcrew

    Nope.



  • @Griatch I've seen two definitions, the one you've quoted and this other one- "a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or other display screen." Which would mean text games are not considered video games, since there's no imagery to manipulate.

    I think that one is more what most people on the thread are thinking of, since if you go by the video device one, that kind of invites in things that could be played independent of video devices, like say, two friends playing cards against humanity over skype would be a video game by that definition, since they would be playing a game over a video device, or two friends joking around by texts could be considered of video games. I think most people think of the visual medium with imagery to manipulate as intrinsic to the game.


  • Politics

    @Arkandel said in Are MU* videogames:

    Don't you make me bust out the wikipedia link, lawyer-bot! I'll do it!

    If you had asked whether MUs fall under the definition of "video games," I'd agree with your position. What you asked was whether I consider MUs a video game, and I don't.

    When my friends ask me if I've played good video games, I don't get into my MU*ing. So, I clearly don't consider them video games.


  • Coder

    @Ganymede said in Are MU* videogames:

    When my friends ask me if I've played good video games, I don't get into my MU*ing. So, I clearly don't consider them video games.

    That's where I'm at. Yes, technically, they're video games by some definitions. Depends on which one you use. In casual conversation, no I don't talk about them as "video games".


  • Admin

    @Ganymede said in Are MU* videogames:

    MUs fall under the definition of "video games," I'd agree with your position. What you asked was whether I consider MUs a video game, and I don't.

    Actually I was responding to the part you quoted ("There's text. Text adventures used to be considered video games, and were celebrated as such."). I.e. I was showing text adventures are perfectly legitimate video games.

    When my friends ask me if I've played good video games, I don't get into my MU*ing. So, I clearly don't consider them video games.

    AND that's what kinda prompted me to bring this up here. I was chatting with an old friend who doesn't consider me a video gamer because I 'only play MMORPGs' (which isn't an entirely unwarranted assertion :) ) at which point I pointed out I still play MUSHes too.

    What's funny is he considers MUDs video games but not MUSHes.


  • Politics

    @Arkandel said in Are MU* videogames:

    I was chatting with an old friend who doesn't consider me a video gamer because I 'only play MMORPGs' (which isn't an entirely unwarranted assertion :) ) at which point I pointed out I still play MUSHes too.

    What's funny is he considers MUDs video games but not MUSHes.

    Your old friend probably has a great personality, but he sounds like a fucking moron here.

    I'm in my mid-to-late 30s now. I have twins and a partner. I have a full-time job, and my character on RfK eats up time like a motherfucker. If that were my friend, I'd ghost on him right quick.


  • Coder

    @Arkandel

    I would agree more with this friend if he didn't just contradict himself by saying MMOs are not video games. And if we are to be pedantic, saying someone who plays MMOs is not a "video gamer" while an MMO may be a "video game" then we have two entirely different completely opinion-based questions. I need to fix the plumbing on my sink; am I a plumber?

    Anyway, a MUD has automated systems with clearer win/loss mechanics, while a MUSH is an extended tabletop game platform. I'd agree with that distinction that one of these is a computer game and the other is not.


  • Politics

    @Ganymede said in Are MU* videogames:

    I'm in my mid-to-late 30s now. I have twins and a partner. I have a full-time job, and my character on RfK eats up time like a motherfucker. If that were my friend, I'd ghost on him right quick.

    It doesn't really sound like it's a matter of judgment though, just opinion.

    I don't think @Arkandel's friend considers him a horrifyingly bad person or a loser because he doesn't play what the guy considers "video games".


  • Pitcrew

    @Arkandel said in Are MU* videogames:

    What's funny is he considers MUDs video games but not MUSHes.

    I can actually kind of understand that idea. MUDs have a level of automation and interacting with the environment that MUSHes don't. I might consider a MUD a video came where I wouldn't a MUSH/MUX/MOO.

    MMOS are totally video games, though, your friend is dumb. That is hardly a reason to ghost on a friend, though.


  • Admin

    @Thenomain said in Are MU* videogames:

    Anyway, a MUD has automated systems with clearer win/loss mechanics, while a MUSH is an extended tabletop game platform.

    By that metric though, is Magic Online a video game? Its automation is what the cards already do.

    Or would you say, consider MtgO to be a video game but not, say, a client simulating a MtG table where you tap, draw etc cards manually?


  • Coder

    @Arkandel

    I would be happy calling it either, as there is a computer system you are playing against.

    Want to twist up my brain? How about Hearthstone? Is it a computer game or a platform? Well obviously it's a computer game. But why? Two people are doing nothing they couldn't do with specialty cards? I think it's because the system automation. The players are still using an automated environment to do, in some cases, pretty heavy math. At times, the entire published library is at the players' disposal. The game takes the need to work any of that out of the players' hands. In games like these, it's usually impossible to act outside the rules provided to you by the computer program itself.

    The same goes for fighting games. Still very clearly computer games, where two players are using the computer as the medium for the fight, but the computer is doing far, far more than providing a communications platform.

    On your typical Mush, the game isn't doing a whole lot of rules computing. It's a set if insanely specialized tools to allow the players to apply their own rule, a step up from using IRC for RPGs.


  • Coder

    @Apos said in Are MU* videogames:

    @Griatch I've seen two definitions, the one you've quoted and this other one- "a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or other display screen." Which would mean text games are not considered video games, since there's no imagery to manipulate.

    I would say your definition is just a slightly different way to say the same thing. The "image" your definition refers to is the screen image produced and manipulated by the computer to be sent to the video device at a certain rate. It has nothing to do with graphics or indeed what is on that screen image, just that you manipulate it in a game context (as in sending different text to it depending on your input). All in all, the definition of the term "video game" seems quite clear-cut. That some of the original video games - the text-based games - should not be included in this group is a strange notion.

    And yes, playing games over skype does fall under the definition of "video game" although I agree it's not commonly referred to as such.
    .
    Griatch


  • Admin

    @Griatch I think the difference will have to probably include factors closer to Theno's definition - i.e. tied to automation - than whether text counts as there's no imagery, simply because I don't think anyone here is actually going to claim text adventures like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, The Pawn or Gnome Ranger aren't video games.

    Now you will have to excuse me, I'm having a nostalgia attack. I need a moment.


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