Adapting FATE for MU*s


  • Pitcrew Banned

    I really like FATE. I mean, I'm fairly new to it, but I really like. Really like it. In spite of this, the fact that the rules encourage the players to engage in worldbuilding, it seems pretty daunting to allow a MU* to operate on it, or anything like it.

    ...

    I just want to do it anyway. So, bearing this in mind, can we have a thread devoted to discussing potential ways to adapt FATE into a MU* that won't be completely back asswards and unfun?


  • Pitcrew

    The last time I sat down and tried to puzzle out a good way to do it, I got a headache.


  • Coder

    @Auspice said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    The last time I sat down and tried to puzzle out a good way to do it, I got a headache.

    Yeah, I mean... the mechanics are easy enough to adapt. But what makes Fate cool are the freeform epic aspects/stunts and the collaborative chargen / resolutions. Those are exactly the things that make the idea of using Fate on a game with dozens of strangers sound like a nightmare. You could strip them out or tone them down, but then you're getting away from what made Fate neat in the first place.


  • Pitcrew

    @faraday said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    @Auspice said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    The last time I sat down and tried to puzzle out a good way to do it, I got a headache.

    Yeah, I mean... the mechanics are easy enough to adapt. But what makes Fate cool are the freeform epic aspects/stunts and the collaborative chargen / resolutions. Those are exactly the things that make the idea of using Fate on a game with dozens of strangers sound like a nightmare. You could strip them out or tone them down, but then you're getting away from what made Fate neat in the first place.

    I've run into a lot of people with similar experiences. It's one of those systems that works great in tabletop, so we want to see it in MU*, but it's just... not going to scale well, I don't think.

    Your best bet is probably going to be using something extant, to be honest.


  • Coder

    I think the takeaway here is that the more a game system is geared toward storytelling, the harder it will be to adapt to Mu*.

    It's not like we haven't done things in Fate before, but less formally. "I have an occult contact." / "Okay, they are currently in their crystal shop on Earl and Somerset, near the Ralph's." / "Next to the dog park? Cool!" / "Do not approach the dog park."

    In Fate, this is allowed, encouraged, and practically codified. I don't imagine it's not impossible to adjust this, but adjust it to what? What's your goal? Start there. At first blush, I'm thinking like a builder; what would you do if someone created Crystal's Crystals at the opposite corner of the dog park for their character?

    Story Points, Tix, Bennies, these things exist on current games. Fate does have their own point economy you might think of using.

    Just a thought.


  • Coder

    @Thenomain said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    I think the takeaway here is that the more a game system is geared toward storytelling, the harder it will be to adapt to Mu*.

    That seems like a particularly ironic statement for a hobby built around storytelling :)

    I would say it's more about subjectivity than storytelling, but they're definitely related. The more subjective a system is, the harder it's going to be to achieve consensus and balance among strangers.

    Example: FS3 is also geared toward storytelling. It gets criticized because chargen is subject to the whims of the approval staff and can be min-maxed. Those same problems are magnified like 1000x when you not only are debating whether Joe Viper Pilot should have "Good" or "Great" in Piloting, but also debating what sorts of aspects and stunts he has.


  • Coder

    @faraday said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    @Thenomain said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    I think the takeaway here is that the more a game system is geared toward storytelling, the harder it will be to adapt to Mu*.

    That seems like a particularly ironic statement for a hobby build around storytelling :)

    Except that it's not a hobby built around storytelling. It's built upon minis-based war-games and Colossal Cave Adventure. We've brought storytelling to it because there were people interested in the medium but not the proto-MMO nature of Muds. I'd say that the modern day Mush came from the Socials of the early- to mid-90s.

    Even high-tactical RPGs like D&D have pains converting to to the medium of Mu*, so...no, not ironic. I mean, it was worth a grin, but I'm going to kindly say: Yeah, no.

    I would say it's more about subjectivity than storytelling, but they're definitely related. The more subjective a system is, the harder it's going to be to achieve consensus and balance among strangers.

    Okay. We're talking about the same things in different terms.

    Example: FS3 is also geared toward storytelling. It gets criticized because chargen is subject to the whims of the approval staff and can be min-maxed.

    WoD has similar problems, at different points. And they are drops in the water compared to the collaboration issues inherent in more storytelling-heavy games like Fate, which is what the OP is asking about.



  • FATE is not for PvP.

    It is for competent characters to show off their competence.
    It is for players to get a chance to create, embellish and/or narrate obstacles.
    It is for a single basic plane of power level.

    It is not for people who want infinite growth of characters.
    It is not for those who oppose a system telling them they have lost an argument.
    It is not for system crunch, despite having a deal of system to track.


  • Pitcrew

    Fate, or at least an adaptation of it in Dresden Files RPG , worked for several years quite well on Dark Spires.

    it is very much for collaborative story telling and NOT for PVP as @Misadventure pointed out.. and it does have the problem of power creep. There are some ways of dealing with this, some better than others.


  • TV & Movies

    Playing FATE on a MU generally degrades into just playing FUDGE on a MU.

    Its core conceits rely on empowering players to change the world on the fly (particularly using knowledge type skills to declare setting details) which is just something 99% of the neurotic, control-freak laden MU community is never going to be comfortable with. Staff is hesitant to empower junior staff/player STs to run plots with full narrative authority, how are they going to get over that and extend that authority to literally every player on the game? (and conversely, how can we expect players not to abuse it, when people frequently display the 'I don't give a fuck about your theme, I'll play what I want' attitude even on strict games?)

    I don't even like FATE much to begin with (some combination of the Forge-era pretentious indy shit with the fact that a lot of the mechanics don't feel like they really work to me), but insofar as I can see how it does things some people might like, they seem totally unworkable on a MU.

    Oh, except for Stress Track + Consequences. I love these and want them in more games. But the rest of it is non-applicable.


  • Coder

    @bored said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    Forge-era pretentious indy shit

    @surreality, more vodka please.


  • TV & Movies

    @Thenomain Aw, don't get your tweed jacket in a twist.


  • Coder

    @bored said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    @Thenomain Aw, don't get your tweed jacket in a twist.

    Eh. Today I'm calling out willful ignorance. Maybe tomorrow I'll stop picking on you.



  • @Thenomain I have this now.

    It's so good it's worth sharing just to spread the word, no joke.


  • TV & Movies



  • @surreality said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    @Thenomain I have this now.

    It's so good it's worth sharing just to spread the word, no joke.

    I have this now.
    Drunken Ass Spirits!

    Literally the name is "Drunken Ass Spirits". I got it specifically for reading MSB. At 60%ABV it's there to numb me to the pain as quickly and as efficiently as possible.



  • @WTFE It is a shame I probably can't get a bottle of that to you. It's surprisingly good. Semi-local small brewhouse, though, so... :/

    If I ever win half a bil in powerball or something, everybody in the drinking game gets a case of that. Because.

    Ahem. Sorry for the derail, back to the topic, y'all.


  • Coder

    @Thenomain said in Adapting FATE for MU*s:

    Except that it's not a hobby built around storytelling. It's built upon minis-based war-games and Colossal Cave Adventure. We've brought storytelling to it because there were people interested in the medium but not the proto-MMO nature of Muds. I'd say that the modern day Mush came from the Socials of the early- to mid-90s.

    I agree that MUSHes really sort of developed out of the Socials of the 1990's, with very freeform RP that didn't have any sort of rules or structure. I think the first MUSH supposedly cropped up in 1990 or so.

    I'm curious where this connection to minis-based war-games and MUSHes comes about? I've never seen an intersection of the two.

    I first started seeing RPG systems coming into things with oWOD when Masquerade started up.

    Lost Dominion and Tenebrous Isles are two MUSHes that are using FATE.



  • What about generating a basic coded system inside a non-themed sandbox MUSH and use a core element from FS3? The +combat instances? Then, players create their character with a name they're willing to actually RP as, (no 1337Pwned or ~BIG===D~FTW names, which should be sitebanned on creation just because)
    and then when a group determines they want to RP together, they all +combat/join the same instance and use the system's codes to roll dice and add NPCs and such. End of their RP, they close the instance and post their log wherever. Provides a fun way to enjoy FATE online without having to deal with the overhead of actual world building and metaplotting.

    You as a staffer can run plots of your own that can line up from RP to RP if you want to, and players can join in on those plots, but if a group of players decide to RP something other than what you're plotting, they have the freedom to create on your game without @-commands or permanency.


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