World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings


  • Politics

    @faraday said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    I'm not even talking about building a combat engine. I'm simply talking about changing the order in which the people involved declare and resolve their actions.

    Okay, I follow you.

    Concrete example:

    A pages GM: "I'm going to attack C and use my Vigor."
    B pages GM: "I'm going to change into my (werewolf attack form - I forget what it's called) and attack C with my claws."
    C pages GM: "I'm going to dominate B and have her turn on A."

    GM makes a bunch of rolls, factoring in all of the merits and conditions and initiative and all that good stuff.

    As I stated, this is not how the rules work. Let's say we change the rules to follow this, though.

    <OOC> GM says, "OK here's what happens: A attacks C and does (blah blah) damage. C then dominates B, who changes forms and wheels on A with claws bared. B - you're now dominated."

    This also does not happen because, for the most part, there's no GM present for PvP combat on most MUShes, unless a staff member is called in. WoD MUSH culture has shifted away from the dreaded TimeStop, where you have to have a staff member present to resolve combat, and this has been considered, generally, a good thing.

    One can re-work the system entirely, yes, to make combat easier. I do agree with this. I guess my point -- if it can be said that I ever have a point -- is that one need not change anything to make combat easier, quicker, and more fun.

    First, it would be awful nice that, if you intend to hurt or kill another PC, that you are courteous enough to respond promptly to what's happening, rather than watching TV or doing whatever between poses. I find that to be fucking rude to the nth degree.

    Second, it would be awful nice if games used and enforced the actual, published systems that are calculated to make your players' lives easier. From "Down and Dirty Combat" to "Beat Down" rules, those 2E games that opened (except for the one in Austin) just outright ignored these systems for no apparent reason. Use the published systems, dammit.

    To get back on topic, sort of, a lot of these problems? Have been solved systematically. It's just up to staff and players to implement and enforce them.


  • Coder

    @ganymede OK fair enough. I was operating on some misinformation or misunderstandings of what other people have said about combat in WoD MUSHes.

    My only point is that systems designed for tabletop often do not fit the MUSH environment very well, and games shouldn't be chained to them. Don't be afraid of adapting the system to one that fits the environment better. If one of those other published systems you mention does that? Groovy.


  • Pitcrew

    @ganymede said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    Second, it would be awful nice if games used and enforced the actual, published systems that are calculated to make your players' lives easier. From "Down and Dirty Combat" to "Beat Down" rules, those 2E games that opened (except for the one in Austin) just outright ignored these systems for no apparent reason. Use the published systems, dammit.

    Eldritch adressed and made use of (at least in the scenes I ran) both Down and Dirty Combat and Beaten Down when and where applicable. It's just really hard to ingrain somethingn into a community as resistent as MUSHdom. I even used D&D Combat as the mechanic for a variety of other things because it was a good tool.


  • Coder

    @coin

    I wish we had better tools for doing that.

    I believe that having better tools for something makes a system more likely to be adopted. Tho if players want to do something a certain way, there's almost no amount of coding that can be done to encourage or discourage it.


  • Politics

    @faraday said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    I was operating on some misinformation or misunderstandings of what other people have said about combat in WoD MUSHes.

    Let me be clear: I don't think you're wrong, and what others are saying about how long combat lasts is demonstratively true.

    But, as others have said below, and as I continue to rant, players really need to change. There are legitimate, published systems that make combat so much quicker and easier, but players need to use them.


  • Coder

    This is no longer a discussion about alternate settings.



  • @lithium ...thank gods thread drift is not part of the drinking game, or the hobby would die because all of us would be dead from liver poisoning. (Just in general, as in... this doesn't surprise me much.)


  • Coder

    Alternate settings often require alternate rules, so the rulesets people want to engage in are important to a discussion about alternate settings.


  • Coder

    @thenomain No they really do not. There is already rule sets for making up baddies for WoD, especially new CoD 2e.

    Even if it were needed (It's not) you are effectively talking about alternate /systems/ not settings.

    For example!

    I can use FATE for every setting imaginable. The rules don't even /need/ to be altered. I /can/ but they don't need to be.

    WoD can be used for pretty much any setting imaginable, may or may not need rule adjustments, but we're talking the World of Darkness, as a setting just Alternate to what is so common right now. So the system is a given.


  • Politics

    @lithium said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    WoD can be used for pretty much any setting imaginable, may or may not need rule adjustments, but we're talking the World of Darkness, as a setting just Alternate to what is so common right now. So the system is a given.

    As the original poster, I am as much interested in alternate settings as I am in alternate systems to be implemented therein.


  • Coder

    @ganymede Then change the title?

    Fuck it.

    Whatever.


  • Coder

    @lithium said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    @thenomain No they really do not.

    Tell that to the Harry Potter game I'm tweaking CoD code for. In order to treat the setting with respect, something needs to change.

    You have your own opinion, but it's...well, tangenting this thread. I don't mind this, but you seem to want this discussion to split. I tried to bring it back home, and you're getting kind of snippy about it. So if you want to discuss this, fine. If you want it in a different thread, now is the perfect time to reply to a post as a quote in an entirely different thread. (I've done that my fair share of times.) If not, don't worry about it.

    --

    edit: I just remembered the historical books that White Wolf/Onyx Path came out with. I cannot imagine almost any of them being possible without system tweaks. Vampire 1980s and Mage 1920s maybe being the exceptions. I don't think Mage Noir had anything but a few optional add-ons. The Vampire Chrome tweaks were brilliantly funny.



  • You're also forgetting Victorian Lost.

    Non-steampunk Industrial Revolution could be fun, BUT.... Instead of steampunk, go full Nadia: Secret of the Blue Water with schizotech.



  • @ganymede said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    The Descent: a government-run program in the 1950s bombards the planet from orbit, which destroys much of civilization and rips the Gauntlet open, causing spirits to flood into the real world.

    Actually as I recall, in 1962 the US military detonated a nuclear warhead in the Van Allen radiation belt for... honestly no other reason than "Hey we found this new thing let's nuke it!"

    I can see that being the trigger point for the gauntlet being destroyed. Just putting that out there.


  • Coder

    @duntada Given the science of 1962, I could imagine there could be a lot learned from that detonation, how different types of radiation interact with each other, etc.

    But that's the science geek in me.

    Now knowing what I know today, the idea of nuking a radiation belt is... well yeah :)



  • @lithium

    Oh there was definitely merit to it, and a lot was learned. Unfortunately one of those things learned was "Don't put your biggest radiation bombs in the radiation belt or it will fuck with your ability to do any other tests for 20 years."



  • On my way to work today, I thought it might be fun to do a World of Darkness Captial Hill.

    What kind of crazy bills would a bunch of vampires pass?


  • Pitcrew

    Probably the same



  • @sg Open immigration, universal healthcare, disarming the police force...



  • @tinuviel said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

    @sg Open immigration, universal healthcare, disarming the police force...

    ... this upsets me, because it's one of those obvious-but-not things. Gotta keep your food source healthy and not killing eachother.