Gap between RP fantasy and RP reality
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@Arkandel said in Gap between RP fantasy and RP reality:
@Staricide said in Gap between RP fantasy and RP reality:
What areas do you find there's the biggest difference between what you imagine doing with your character before you start playing them and how things always seem to go once you're actually playing them?
I think in general terms it's got less to do with the characters than the players and the environment since that's what your roleplay hinges on.
For example you can make your battle-hardened, wizened veteran with PTSD who you want to try and stay out of conflict until he gets pulled right back into it by the circumstances... and yet all you find is birthday parties RP, or maybe there aren't enough STs to run said conflict so although everyone talks about war there isn't really any action, and so on.
That's why it pays off so much to create open-ended characters. Have their initial personality, their back story, their views and dreams (or nightmares) on the back burner then... use what you get on the game.
I was expecting the conclusion of this post to be 'find another game', because that's what I thought the first two paragraphs were building up to. And that's what I would do if I really wanted to play a scarred up war vet who kept getting dragged into birthday party RP! Sounds to me like a clash between player interests vs. existing game culture & setting.
Why mangle your desired character concept to suit a game that can't provide what you really want?
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@L-B-Heuschkel that's my strategy as well. I just have historically run into more than a few kind of insufferable people who will very loudly complain how their PC is just too deep and complex for everyone else around them who of course are so much shallower. When in fact there were lots of interesting stories to uncover in those other PCs, its just that fewer people wanted to deal with the Oh So Complex person because they were kind of a critical impatient jerk.
To some degree it's not enough to have a really interesting story on a mush, you have to find people who would like to tell it with you. I think that escapes people sometimes or is their biggest frustration and sometimes rather than address that aspect they will blame others for not being up to par.
It's a human impulse, I think that most people can find themselves sucked into.
I find I have a lot better success being happy on a place if I really examine my expectations and see if I can recalibrate a bit. Usually I can find at least one or two people that are very reciprocal in allowing me into their stories while also being interested in mine and building new ones.
I struggle sometimes to have reasonable expectations, but I am always a lot happier with everything and everyone if I do.
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@Kestrel said in Gap between RP fantasy and RP reality:
I was expecting the conclusion of this post to be 'find another game', because that's what I thought the first two paragraphs were building up to. And that's what I would do if I really wanted to play a scarred up war vet who kept getting dragged into birthday party RP! Sounds to me like a clash between player interests vs. existing game culture & setting.
Why mangle your desired character concept to suit a game that can't provide what you really want?
Because just like sometimes life gives you lemons, MU* give you birthday parties. And sure, you could drift off, try to perservere or try your luck with a different crowd in the same game, or you need to adjust.
While we're in control of our PCs and despite what the game's theme is, other people factor very heavily into what we actually get to do on the grid. Sometimes you sign up for gritty survival (since that's what the wiki implies) but get Zombieland instead. You could leave and look for gorier pastures but it's not the only option.
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Eh.
Here's the thing though: I don't have to RP. Between the many books and TV shows everyone keeps telling me I need to read/watch, a flexible work schedule and a semi-active social life, RP for me isn't a necessity, but an option. I am an introvert, and I enjoy my own company. I like writing, and view RP as a creative outlet for that hobby, but if it's not satisfying the itch I most want to scratch I can just write on my own and I'm happy with that, or I can stick to a small, select handful of RPers whom I know are always guaranteed to be a good time.
I don't see why I should adjust my expectations or lower my standards, ever or at all. My standards are high because I value my time and patience. If I'm not getting back the same level of what I feel like I'm extending myself to give, I don't feel the need to consider that the problem is with me, because I can just go and get it elsewhere. Or do something else.
Cries of "elitist" have always annoyed me far more than the recipients of that label. And you know what? Sometimes I've been on the other end of things. Sometimes people have looked at my stories and characters and RP and been like, 'not for me, thanks'. To which I shrug and say, OK, bye, because again — my ability to have a good time does not depend on one person's interest and approval.
If they're loudly complaining about the perceived inferiority of everyone around them? Sure, they're an arsehole; they're sucking the energy out of everyone else who's here having a good time and they should just go, live their best life with people who apparently meet their expectations.
It's perhaps the negative, whiny, soul-sucking narcissists you meant to target with your posts, but I don't agree with the conclusion that people just need to be more accepting to be happy. I'm never happy when I lower my expectations to just extend myself to anyone and everyone who wants a piece of me — nothing makes me burn out and hate myself faster.
You don't have to announce your preferences and use those to shit on people. It's a similar precedent to the one espoused on that dating thread a while back. It's the equivalent of having something ultra-gross like "no fatties" on your profile. But having those preferences? It's fine. I think shaming people for that is just as bad as shaming people for just about anything else.
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I said that I personally find more success at being happy on a game if I adjust my expectations to what the game seems to be realistically provide. If I'm going to stay on the game.
If when examining what those expectations should be (including things that I might be doing that could be sabotaging the results) I find that it's not going to be fun for me, I leave. But I do not do so because I assume that people had nothing to offer there. Sometimes you just never have the chance because either you do not fit, or frankly there are a lot places where it's hard to break in where people will invest in your story, period, no matter how awesome you are and they are.
So you have the choice to see if you'd like to give it a go with adjusted expectations, or go find somewhere else.
I like this discussed in the "RP Fantasy vs reality" framework because that kind of automatically puts the idea there that expectations and adjustments to the reality of what you have in the environment you are in.
If people do not want to "settle" then that's fine--lots of folks congregate with like minded folks. Whether that is a close knit subgroup on a larger game or people forming an invite only place so that they have quality control, ect. You do what you do when you need to do it, there isn't anything wrong with that.
I just happen though to have seen people self sabotaging with expectations and behavior. I have self-sabotaged with expectations and behavior. In reality, every time I have has differences in the RP reality vs what I get to the point that i no longer enjoy being there, 99.9 percent of the time it is not because nobody else is interested in meaningful play or risky play that might involve their PC being drawn in directions they hadn't planned on (I am sure other people on the same game even though would have different experiences than me), it is largely about expectations (including those that I wasn't aware that I had). Sometimes if I can tweak them, I do find more of what I am looking for. Sometimes not.
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I mean, there is a difference between high standards and unrealistic expectations, and I find that people with the latter usually think they have the former. But if they're happy with what they get out of the hobby it's entirely fine. I only start rolling my eyes when they start preaching like they're being reasonable instead of completely insufferable.
ETA: I do wish they would discover the joys of OTT with the others of their kind and stop trying to play with us plebs. Literally everyone would be happier.
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@Sunny said in Gap between RP fantasy and RP reality:
ETA: I do wish they would discover the joys of OTT with the others of their kind and stop trying to play with us plebs. Literally everyone would be happier.
Recap for the plebs in the back: other than "over the top", what's OTT?
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@Kestrel Online Table Top. Roll20 and similar.
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I admit I looked at roll20 because I really want to run a small FS game to get back in the saddle without the complications of a mush. But I can't figure it out. A lot of my current frustrations and restlessness could be solved if I could just run the equivalent of a biweekly prp with PCs I could really get to know/see develop as their ST. I realized what I want is more of a online tabletop thing, where there can be 1 on 1 slower rp inbetween but I havent seen any platforms that I can understand. also roll20 had the cthulu thing and I would love to do that for awhile.
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I never get the "voice" right. I think they're going to sound one way, and then they never end up sounding quite like that.
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The fantasy: I'll be able to look past all the things I don't like about people's characters and enjoy playing with them anyway.
The reality: I can't pretend to like characters for more than a few weeks/months before my inner voice is like 'fuck this place, let's go play video games instead.'The fantasy: That fun and fairness are equal-opportunity & I'll have a great time anonymously.
The reality: I get more/better RP opportunities when I play games where I know people & I feel pigeonholed into certain roles when I play with people I know.The fantasy: I can fake it til it's fun.
The reality: It hurts to try sometimes. -
When I'm not completely braindead let's talk about OTT stuff; I have some experience with it and can probably help.
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I always think I'll find a cool social niche to fall into where I can provide a useful service that isn't time sensitive or combat/scene-heavy. Then a couple weeks later I realize I've done essentially nothing and I can't quite figure out why Arx worked for me so easily but nothing else has.
I just wanna have a little non-essential but still fun shop somewhere. Be a cool spy that doesn't need to be Solid Snake or a stripper. Run a little mechanic's garage that isn't The Best There Ever Was. You know, the RP of a normal person living in extraordinary circumstances.
And worse, the environments are there. I just don't feel at home in them like I thought I would.
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For me, the hardest part was finding a game where I felt welcome. I have a few challenges to deal with before I feel that there's room for me in a game.
One is a learning disability; due to chronic pain my capacity for taking in new information is limited -- I can swallow down only so many game commands, setting lore, and background information in one sitting. Games with miles and miles of old history that you are expected to read up on and know before daring to join a conversation -- not happening. If your setting deviates that much from the canon universe, whatever that is, it's not accessible to new people.
Games with complex custom settings and stories that require lots of lore learning before playing are out (looking at a lot of novel or movie setting games here), as are games that require you to learn a ttrpg system (looking at the various WoD games here for sure).
Social anxiety is another. Games where you have to pretty get on your knees and beg in order for older players to notice slash recognise you are out. MU*s are social games -- don't make newbies exist in their own vaccuum for days if you want them to stay. At the very least return IC greetings.
I don't expect roleplay to get handed to me on a platter when I enter a game, but I have had the same experience many times when deciding that I can do this, yes I can -- you get a character through the app process and finally get on the grid, and no one responds to you. You walk into rooms and try to join a conversation and get flat out ignored. You see people who are somehow marked 'helpers' or 'newbie friendly' and send them a whisper or a page -- and get no response. After a few hours of that, I'm out. I'm not going to stay where I am obviously not wanted.
And obviously, the community needs to be tolerable. I've seen some pretty horrific things out there, although the MMO games tend to be a lot worse than the MU*s.
In the end I gave up on MU*s and MMOs alike. I got dragged back in this fall by @JinShei whom I used to play with elsewhere when she was opening her new Discworld themed mush. I am grateful for that because it's a setting I know very well, Ares is ridiculously easy to learn and use, and since I was there from the start, I don't need to bang on doors to get the older players to acknowledge me (though I make a point out of trying to greet guests and newcomers the way I've often wished someone would greet me on a new game).
Amazingly, it looks like my tale of woe got a happy ending.