Choosing a MU Server
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With more folks trying out the new servers like Evennia and Ares, I've seen a bunch of questions about what they can do, what they're suited for, etc. So I made this document to help folks compare MU server features:
Please let me know if anything in unclear or incorrect. Thanks to @Griatch and @Ashen-Shugar for reviewing the doc and pointing out some errors, and @Thenomain for letting me bug him about his WoD code.
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@faraday Real quick - @ixokai has created a scene/logger which includes repose and wiki formatting and setting details for both PennMUSH and RhostMUSH. The RhostMUSH version is capable of uploading directly to Wiki. Its available here in this forum, don't know if its anywhere else (http://musoapbox.net/topic/1476/loggers).
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
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@lotherio Thanks for adding that. I deliberately only included the major softcode suites and widespread packages (like Myrddin's) that are pretty established/well-known. There are, of course, lots of other bits and pieces of softcode scattered around the 'net.
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@faraday Volund's suite does include SceneSys.
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
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Not sure if this is the point of this thread, but... Do you have an example of AresMUSH's web portal/web site/whatever? I seem to recall the one game I saw with it (7th sea? pirates something something) was still using mediawiki.
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@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
Not sure if this is the point of this thread, but... Do you have an example of AresMUSH's web portal/web site/whatever? I seem to recall the one game I saw with it (7th sea? pirates something something) was still using mediawiki.
8th Sea chose to use it for aesthetic purposes primarily. They did also have some things on their web portal.
BSGU's is still active: http://bsgu.aresmush.com/
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@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
Not sure if this is the point of this thread, but... Do you have an example of AresMUSH's web portal/web site/whatever? I seem to recall the one game I saw with it (7th sea? pirates something something) was still using mediawiki.
The game is officially closed but its portal is up and still has data from when it was used: http://bsgu.aresmush.com/
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@lotherio said in Choosing a MU Server:
@faraday Volund's suite does include SceneSys.
I added that, thanks.
@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
Do you have an example of AresMUSH's web portal/web site/whatever?
What @Auspice said. Though it's worth noting that we worked out the aesthetic issue with T8S, they just haven't had a chance to switch over because their coder was on paternity leave. This is a picture of what the web portal looked like after being styled to match their wiki.
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@faraday Yeah, I've been really impressed with that you've been able to do with the web portal to make it look like wikidot/mediawiki/whatever implementations. I'm sad we haven't been able to get things up to date with the web portal, because the logging/autoposting functionality in particular is awesome.
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Real question, because I don't know. Is TinyMUX still actively supported?
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@rucket Not really I don't think. I don't think they've stopped working on it but the updates are slow.
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@skew If you know how to style in Wikidot, you should have no problem styling in Ares. If it helps any, there's also a thread about Ares styling - https://forum.aresmush.com/t/suggestions-while-skinning/128/9 - that @Tat was nice enough to start.
I haven't played with it much, but I can tell you that some things - like scenes - actually look really slick on the Ares web interface. You can use the built-in client, true, but I like the look of the scenes so much.
Sorry for the ugly styling in these; I was just using random colors and fonts to see what things did, but here are a few snaps of the scenesys in use, including one from the MUSH, just so you can get a glimpse how they interface.
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Yeah, Ares has a custom_css file that you can throw stuff in to muck about to your heart's content, and it'll overwrite any of the default CSS. It also has a simpler color customization system for people who don't know CSS and just want to change basic colors, and I think the side the sidebar appears on.
There are a few places that you have to dig a little harder if you want to customize things, but I've actually been noting those for @faraday and she's been great about adding in classes and such where needed so that the skinning will just get easier and easier in subsequent versions.
There are a few wiki things it doesn't do (yet), but WOW does the stuff it does make up for it. For example, the game I'm working on has just decided to use web CG entirely instead of doing it in game, because it's so slick.
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@tat said in Choosing a MU Server:
There are a few wiki things it doesn't do (yet)
This isn't really meant to be an Ares thread specifically but feel free to toss feature requests over on the Ares forum. I implemented all the wikidot functionality I needed for BSGU.
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@rucket The TinyMUX softcode is continually changing. Me and @Thenomain are still working on and off. Me more off than on. Over on Fate's Harvest, the staffer there (Annapurna) has coded up way a lot of systems, and one day I'll talk her into putting them up here. It's all ad hoc kind of stuff, though. Need to hit someone's github and copy+paste.
As an example, there's a scene logger on Fate's Harvest that works pretty great. You create an object yourself (@create), hit it with the code, turn it on, it logs the scene then outputs it all in an easy copy+paste wiki format. Likewise, I have made +repose and +poseorder for TinyMUX.
And @everyonelse thanks for the links!
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@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
@rucket The TinyMUX softcode is continually changing
Yeah also consider... TinyMUX as a server platform has been stable for what - a decade? At some point I think it's reasonable to say "yep, we've gone as far as we're gonna go here". That doesn't detract from the platform's utility at the things it's good at, especially when a lot of the systems are softcoded anyway.
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@faraday said in Choosing a MU Server:
Yeah also consider... TinyMUX as a server platform has been stable for what - a decade? At some point I think it's reasonable to say "yep, we've gone as far as we're gonna go here". That doesn't detract from the platform's utility at the things it's good at, especially when a lot of the systems are softcoded anyway.
I have to say that I still do not understand why no one has set up a "blank" database, which has not just the TinyMUX core stuff (SGP?) but also a package of the most used features on it. It seems like it would be incredibly simple to do.
But then, I don't understand a lot of the things that happen in this happy. I only started in 2013, and I still get looked at like I'm crazy when I bring up all sorts of different things that seem logical to me.
And the obvious follow up... why don't you, skew? Because I'd rather invest my time in a new project than pick up a decade old project. But I can promise if I do grab an Ares or Evennia server, I'll be documenting my stuff as best I can! (Just like I did for my +repose and +poseorder and the mess of other code I did. Super easy to copy+paste it!)
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@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
I have to say that I still do not understand why no one has set up a "blank" database, which has not just the TinyMUX core stuff (SGP?) but also a package of the most used features on it. It seems like it would be incredibly simple to do.
Well, I can't speak to TinyMUX but I did exactly this for PennMUSH with my Softcode Package (which everybody calls the 'FS3 codebase' even though FS3 is a completely optional addon.)
The trouble, I think, is that there was so much variation in softcode packages. Should your starter DB include Faraday's +who or Volund's? Brandymail or Faraday's mail? Also, configuring these things required code knowledge (because it requires monkeying with attributes on objects and softcode formatting functions). If you need a coder just to set the dang thing up, then having a pre-built code package for simple globals was of minimal benefit.
But this speaks to a core philosophical difference between Evennia and Ares. Ares is designed to be a 'MU in a box'. There are a bunch of things you can configure easily, but if you want a radically-different +where display, or to completely remove the BBS system, it's going to take some code surgery. Whereas Evennia is more of a blank slate. If you like Sparks' BBS you just install it. Or you can use some other BBS. Or make your own. In this regard it's more like the old servers. Harder if you just want something that works out of the box, but easier if you want to go off the beaten path or just do something your own way.
@skew said in Choosing a MU Server:
I'll be documenting my stuff as best I can ... Super easy to copy+paste it!)
Probably worth noting that both Evennia and Ares have repositories for community contributions. So it'll be easier to share your stuff and have people actually find it.
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Moving to the new Game Dev section.
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@faraday said in Choosing a MU Server:
But this speaks to a core philosophical difference between Evennia and Ares. Ares is designed to be a 'MU in a box'. There are a bunch of things you can configure easily, but if you want a radically-different +where display, or to completely remove the BBS system, it's going to take some code surgery. Whereas Evennia is more of a blank slate. If you like Sparks' BBS you just install it. Or you can use some other BBS. Or make your own. In this regard it's more like the old servers. Harder if you just want something that works out of the box, but easier if you want to go off the beaten path or just do something your own way.
This is true. Part of that philosophical difference is that Evennia is not specifically targeting MUSH-style gameplay the way Ares is. It's one of the styles Evennia can support, which is why it defaults to a more blank slate game-content wise. Evennia is (text-)game-style agnostic and could (and is) used as a starting point to make any form of MU*, from MUSH-style to very code-heavy MUDs and even IF or Rogue-like games (!). Ares is more focused, so as @faraday alludes to, if the kind of game Ares offers is your cup of tea you are going to get more stuff out of the box and probably get started faster. With Evennia, more assembly will be needed.
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Griatch
