No FCs will be allowed. We are going to be an OC only game.

Here's my "hot take" for what it's worth. This is just based on my experiences and certainly may not represent the experiences of others. But...

I don't think the schisms in the MU community can be healed for the most part. It comes down to conflicting personalities, and those bridges will never be mended.

That said, here is a list of stuff I'd love to see be more common in the MU community. Some of these are more peeves than anything else but they are my thoughts on how the community, as a whole, might be a better place.

1. Realize these are just fun-time text-based games. They should be stress relievers, not stress causes.

2. Stop with the "red flags" attacks on new games. I can't count the number of times a new game was added to the advertisement section, and suddenly someone saw something they didn't like or didn't care to RP with, and posts about "red flags" started popping up.

3. Realize that new players are still coming into the community and may not be as good a text-based storyteller as you. That doesn't give you the right to shame them. Several players I know have been chased off games because instead of being given constructive criticism, they were talked down to and made fun of because of how they RPed.

4. Remember that there are actual people on the other end of these usernames. We often take the fact that we can see the actual human for granted and say things to or about them that we would never do in person. I know that's true of the internet, but I think it's especially relevant to here.

5. Just stop being judgy. Period. One of my biggest peeves is when someone does not like something, and they take on the mentality that it shouldn't exist. If you don't like something, ignore it. Don't attack it. Don't try and scare other people away from it.

Obviously, the things we say to friends in private is one thing, but we often take those private thoughts and make them very public, often in the most unkind ways. What I think needs to change most of all is the "If it isn't for me, it isn't for anybody" mentality that some players seem to have in this hobby.

Why is it so hard to be nice and encouraging to each other?

@groth This is just my opinion and how I see things and I could be very wrong BUT, this is how I feel about things...This place stopped being a community a long time ago. It became a gathering place for a certain clique to share their thoughts and ideas and belittle anyone who disagreed with them. It's why my interaction with this forum dropped off to almost nothing years ago and I know it's why several other people have left. You agreed with and were in CliqueX or you were an outsider for the most part.

I do feel this forum needed a change and I think the direction people want to take it is a good one. Was it a rough start? But that's how some journeys start.

Will this lead to something good? Who knows but I don't think what has happened has destroyed the board. I think it destroyed the board for a certain sect of people and, in the end, that may not be a bad thing.

I love the blue eyes!

Here are two of my brood enjoying the snow we got today.

Since I've moved on from the poll I figured I'd post this to let people know the status of the game.

Status: In Progress
Codebaes: Ares
System: Savage Worlds

We'll be set in the Old Republic just after the Mandalorian Wars. We'll be looking to evoke the style and feel of both Jedi the Fallen Order and The Mandalorian with remnants of The Clone Wars. We'll have a core setting(a pair of planets in the outer rim) but we'll have systems in place for players to RP anywhere in the Star Wars universe.

I have no real ETA for when I intend to open but I don't think it'll be too long. I've have the core Savage Worlds system coded up for Ares I just need to customize it for Star Wars and flesh it out with secondary systems(+roll and equipment). I'm hoping the end of January but we'll see.

Anyway, I'll update this thread with how things are going from time to time.

My wife tried creating a character on a game, her first game that wasn't private/run by me. She made a lesbian and was chased off the first night by people eye-rolling and mocking her OOCly as "clearly another man creating a lesbian sex beast". It was truly repulsive to watch and pushed her away from playing on any other public games. People cry about being inclusive but, in the end, I think most people in this hobby are happier just to sit back, mock, and feel generally superior to those around them.

A pic of the character modeled off of my cat that died a few years ago as he appears in the upcoming Monarchies of Mau RPG .

Hmmmm...

***=NSFW content***

I'm not sure why but for some reason I feel the need to jump in and hopefully clarify some points.

1. It's been brought up that I suggested Tony contact Warren OOCly. I did. I even provided some suggest verbiage to try and keep things mellow, essentially just making sure everyone was OOCly on the same page. Tony took a much more aggressive approach to the OOC communication than I had hoped. In the end, I probably should not have made that suggestion. I should have acted as a middle man and first asked everyone to sit on things for 24 hours to let emotions cool.

2. A lot has been made of RS coming and calling sounding the DWOPP alarm. Everyone has their opinion on that, here is mine; I wish he had waited till I had done my investigation before saying anything at all. Once I had verified that Warren was not DWOPP, the entire post would not have been necessary, IMO.

3. A lot has also been made over the Jean/Warren log. I just want to state that Warren was not banned over that log. The log was brought to my attention, I spoke with Jean at length about it, and she made it very clear that she had no problem with Warren or the scene and that I should not hold that scene against him. So I did not.

4. I've hard call for receipts for the bans with some folk saying they need or deserve them. I won't lie, I've only recently read stuff from BMD so some(or most or all) may have come from there but it's a sentiment that's been put out into the universe at any rate. I disagree. People came to me with thoughts and concerns, I did my own investigation, I made my own decisions. Sharing anything that went on behind the scenes helps nothing. It's not going to change anyone's opinions and it is just going to potentially make some people uncomfortable. Sharing these things feeds the drama but I have almost never seen it actually help the situation.

5. I've read some "we know why X or Y was banned". I want to assure you that you do not. No one was banned for any single reason and none of those reasons have been shared openly. Two of those people were banned blindly because I had just had enough and wanted them done and gone. I briefly shared the reason with the third because of our history together and I felt I at least owed them that.

Could some of the things that went down been handled better? Sure. It's also easy to say that now and it's easy to say that if you weren't involved. I had been dealing with some of these issues for weeks. In the final week leading up to the 3 bannings it was a daily thing. It got to the point where I didn't want to log onto my own game because I knew I was going to have several messages about Player X or Player Y.

Do I regret the bannings? I do not. It sucks to say because two of the people involved I think are actually decent people and I know I'll miss their friendship. Unfortunately, these were steps I felt I needed to take. In the end I think the game is stronger for it.

I think, often, it's not bad players that ruin things it's bad people. Over the last year and a half or so I've been RPing almost exclusively with people who are new to the hobby. Their RP was, by any standard on this board I'm sure, bad. That doesn't mean the experience was bad and, over time, they got better. Too many times I've seen new players on games chased off because they were "bad RPers".

I find most new players are very open to constructive criticism. That is generally not what they encounter. They get ostracized, mocked, and ridiculed right off of games. This can be particularly true of someone trying to stretch their RP wings by trying to play something against what they are in real life.

Maybe that dude playing a gay man is a bit over the top. Sure. Maybe it's because he's playing the character as he's seen it portrayed on various TV shows or movies. Or maybe he's just inexperienced. Maybe he's just an asshole trying to portray a caricature. I think the real problem is most people on MUs jump right to the last option and lash out at the player.

So when we ask "why don't we see more diversity on games?" or "why don't we see more new people entering the hobby" I think it boils down to this right here. There are people who will come to this hobby to explore RP. I've seen it. I've seen people new to RPGs in general excited to be able to RP online. I've seen people come from MMO RP servers excited to be able to stretch their wings textually in ways they can't in the MMO. I've also seen these players chased right off of games because they did something that set off someone's "radar" and made them suspect that the new player was "this" or "that" or "whatever the hell else".

TL;DR Version: Fewer new people try new things because they get burned for it by jaded RPers who assume the worst from every experience they have.

Sort of yes? I've been toying with using the Storypath Ultra system to do a WoD-style game. I'm a big fan of the system and think it could be a good way to give a fresh coat of paint on things while keeping it familiar and comfortable.

Sadly, I have deleted this site from my favorites bar and will no longer be checking here for PMs and such, which was all I'd been coming here for over the past few years, anyway.

For those who wish to contact me, I can be found on Discord as Zombiegenesis on the Ares and MuHaven servers.

@Ghost said in The Case Against Real PBs:

"ridiculous argument about Sporty Spice"

This was posted as I was writing my post. I'll counter a ridiculous argument with another one, did you ask for consent from all the people you jerked off to in high school? Did you tell them you were doing it? No? Did it affect their lives in any way that you were doing it?

@Ghost I can't stand the stance of "if you disagree with me, then..." enter whatever negative thing you think the person doesn't want to be associated with. It's the whole, "anyone who disagrees with this hates puppies." So I'm gonna check out of this discussion because it's clear there's no real attempt at discussion happening here.

I hate to say it, but I might finally be done on this forum. Nothing constructive seems to happen here anymore, and the most active thread in months amounts to "Ghost thinks people who use PBs are creepy weirdos, and if you disagree with that, then you must be one."

It's too bad. I've been part of this forum since, like, 2 incarnations previous, but if this isn't a death throe, I don't know what is.

@Misadventure said in The Case Against Real PBs:

Not doing something you don't like doesn't shield you from others doing it. For a collaborative thing that's going to be a difficulty.

I don't think it is that difficult. Here's the thing about someone's chosen PB, it really only matters to them. Everyone else can ignore it or even replace it in their heads. I think there are very few occasions where strictly adhere to "X is playing my character" affects RP in any significant way.

Ghost in on about a legal or at least reasoned question about PBs.

I don't think that's what Ghost was talking about. In fact, I'm not even sure there was an actual question in his post.

Or are you saying that my feeling that my imagination is overwritten and I don't like it is something I do wrong and should change my experience?

I think this hobby's only "wrong fun" is ruining someone else's RP by being selfish. If using PBs negatively impacts your RP, don't use them. As I said above, it'll not impact RP significantly. Even if they don't have a decently written @desc(and how many of them do?), you know their general appearance. And if there are any specific questions about what they're wearing, you can always ask OOCly.

So far got lots of disagree but not much reasoning shared about the question put out there.

I think plenty of reasons have been shared regarding the original post. I think the issue is there really isn't a "question put out there." As for the legality of certain age groups for PBs, I have been focusing on the original post's content. Which wasn't about the legality of PBs in any way as I understood it.

If I were to run a MU* and decide I didn't want PBs, I would just make that policy and if asked why answer "because that's how I want it."

No other reason is needed. Not enough game runners use this philosophy and end up doing things they don't want to do and wind up with regrets.

I'm going to break my post up into two parts; AI Images vs Actors and my thoughts on this thread as a whole.

AI Images vs Actors
I think AI art is amazing. I pay MJ a yearly sub so I can create images to my heart's content. I think it has a lot of advantages for MUSHing. Being able to create truly unique images for your character that can be tailored to the game theme is a powerful argument for AI art, IMO.

That said, getting consistent images of a singular character can be very difficult. I think that might change in the upcoming months with MJ, but for now, it can be very difficult and is reliant more on luck than prompting.

I think actors have a place for PBs as well. I often base my portrayal of a character on the actor I'm using to play them. It can affect how they act, how they talk, and how they react to things. I often hear their voice when I write dialogue or imagine how they might act in my writing scene. I wouldn't say it overwrites the imagination at all. For me, a good PB can fuel my imagination.

Also, you can often find dozens(if not hundreds) of suitable images for your character, especially on games set in a modern setting.

My Thoughts On This Thread

A while ago, there was a discussion about "Why aren't there more MU discussions here?". I think this post is emblematic of why activity has dropped here so much. To me, it very much comes across as, "This is why I think you're a creepy weirdo for Sex Reasons."

I think there is certainly a discussion to be had for a game using only AI imagery instead of PBs. I think it could absolutely be a good alternative. I also think there are plenty of reasons to keep using PBs as they've been used since I got into MUing in 1995, and they don't need to include Creepy Sex Reasons.

The problem is, I didn't get the impression that's what this post was really about at all. To me, it very much came across as a judgemental post meant to shame people who do enjoy using PBs, for whatever reason.

And I think that's the primary problem with the MU community as a whole. A lot of people are much more interested in judging others than they are in coming together to tell cool stories.

I agree. Season 2 has been fantastic. I've also been enjoying Monarch Legacy of Monsters and Netflix recently got Tacoma FD(a sitcom done by some of the people from Broken Lizard).

If I understand the question correctly, many systems do this very thing. Take the many and varied PbtA games, for instance. For this very reason, my group used a variant of City of Mist for quite some time. Instead of a binary pass/fail or chip away at an arbitrary number of "points," it uses a much more descriptive system that encourages drama and creativity. At least, that's how we felt.

We have recently returned to using the classic D6 system, which utilizes difficulty numbers and "points" for various things. It was nothing against City of Mist. Thanks to a really nice Ares plugin, It became more convenient to use the D6 system. I don't think the enjoyment of the players on those games has diminished at all because of it.

The system is just a tool. How useful it is comes down to the players. There are a number of ways that a player can achieve a goal and, in the end, I think the ultimate goal is "to have fun." The problem is there is a large number of players out there who are concerned solely with their own fun. They give very little consideration to how someone else may be enjoying a scene.

That goes well beyond any system. It's one of the reasons I've left the superhero MU space. I got tired of everything being a fight about how OP someone wanted their character to be. It doesn't help that this seems to be the current trend in comics: all characters are "alpha mutants" or whatever. Explaining to them that we have to balance things based on the player base as a whole meant nothing to them. Worse, you'd then see it reflected in their RP. There are players out there who will see any game as "<My Character> MUSH" and no system will fix that.

If the question is, why do we track points that are just a track to inevitable success? Then the answer is that it doesn't need to be a track to inevitable success. Failure can advance RP and drama, too(often more than success). I think the issue comes back to people not wanting their character to fail. Ever. At anything. This can be frustrating to other players for a number of reasons.

First, some players may like a little failure to spice up their RP. Not everything has to be rainbows and roses. Second, in order for Character A to be the success hero they want them to be, other characters need to fail. Often, they need to fail a lot. This can make them feel like secondary characters, which is no fun. Third, these players who cannot fathom their character failing often can't fathom YOUR character succeeding, and they have no problem explaining that fact to you.

Regardless, I think it all boils down to this: the system is a tool, and bad players ruin it for people.

Recently, a brilliant and generous person created a D6 plugin for Ares. This is something I've actually wanted for quite some time. I even started a project to build on myself but just didn't have the time to dedicate to it. So, this was a godsend for me as it has opened the door to do something I've wanted to do for a long time, open a Star Wars game using Ares.

This project is very much 'in development' and I'm just starting to get things put together. I'm posting here fishing for anyone who might be interested in helping out in some way. I've got a good idea for a time period and theme but even those are fluid at the moment. Here's what I'm thinking.

Time Period: Roughly 4,000 years BBY. I put it here because we can easily fudge things. We're not going to be restricted by canon, we're very much going to be our own thing. To that end, I'm fudging things a bit and will be having the Sith War and Mandalorian War be essentially back to back. The galaxy has been in a state of war for 20 years.

Setting: The galaxy. We will likely have some hot spots like Coruscant, Corellia, and some other places, but I don't see the need to limit the game to one specific location.

Factions: Republic, Jedi Order, Sith, and Fringe. I'm hoping to be pretty open with things.

System: D6. It's a bit customized using some of D6 Space and some of the old WEG Star Wars system. Mostly we've combined the Mechanical and Technical skills into one and added Presence. I'm also in the process of simplifying how the Force works basing it more off of the D6 Space metaphysics system. It has full web integration including character generation, a dice roller for scenes, and dice rolling for jobs. It's really slick. I've also added the Traits plugin so people can record other things they may have(starships, equipment, companions, etc).

What I'm looking for: Mostly people who want to contribute in some way to get the game up and running and, once we're open, keep it operating smoothly. Like I said, we're customizing the system a bit so feedback on how that feels will be nice. Getting opinions on the theme and setting will be very helpful. And, once we're open, appstaff and plot runners would be great.

So, if you're interested feel free to drop me a message here. Or if you know anyone that's interested. I'm pretty excited but I'd very much like to have at least some sort of a staff base if I'm ever going to open it to the public.

@Misadventure For elaborate things, I've used +jobs, but I usually create a tabbed box on the game wiki. The first tab has the prompts that should be used for the scene. Another tab has the "reveal". This could also be multiple tabs if there are potentially multiple results.