I've been stewing on this for a couple days (and enjoy the extra day off by not doing much).
@horrorhound said in How can we incentivize IC failure?:
CodeMagic, make it so skills are raised by the number AND quality of rolls made.
I think this gets to the crux of what everyone is saying. If rolling the skill a lot, success or failure, nets some gain ... then folks will game the system by sitting together in a room and spamming rolls throughout the day.
On MUDs this works, my favorite type back in the day was Nightmare LPMUDs, where I didn't get XP for killing mobs, I got it by using my skills. The higher the skill the harder the tasks I could do to raise those skills more. I couldn't kill the noob squirrels in noob woods 500 times to raise stealth by burning XP at my rogue class trainer, I had to go pick pocket the merchants a lot then when stealth was ready to train I asked the rogue trainer to raise my stealth.
On MUSH, the assumption is folks RP together, incentivizing rolling skills moves the needle away from RP'ing and more towards rolling skills, more like a MUD.
I know I'm being dicey there are fine RPI/RPE MUDs that blur the lines. But, for me at least, this is the distinction, on a MUD I could theoretically spend all day doing things solo to raise skills and such while on a MUSH, if I'm solo in a room nothing at all is happening.
This gets to the issue @Arkandel made, a GM scene has weight where as a PRP does not. There is no incentive to winning or failing in the PRP. My usual caveat, I've played for 30 years no without being in GM scenes/plots/events.
The places better for me have been the ones that do periodic XP regardless of activity. This has been the more universal system games. FS3 has given a small but even amount of XP to players on a weekly basis. The old D6 games (Dahan's included) would give so much CP per week.
The non-XP incentives and rewards can be distributed evenly between GM events and PrP, the issue then comes in accountability. Three players can sit in a room together for 8 hours and say they ran a plot to defeat the lich king to become Thespian Guildmaster of the Bardic College. But how do we know they did that with some risk/reward type rolls aside from trust? The answer has been logs but then there is a really high push back about some folks not wanting to provide logs, or not liking to log their RP or some such.
So what I'm seeing overall, is a system to reward RP and incentivize IC failure would be good but a system to reward RP and incentivize IC failure is a lot of effort?
I think adventure ideas for PCs in which they post the logs after and get some rewards is fine, but I know most folks won't do this even if you code it all the way through (+adventure/next to go to next scenario when all criteria are met, such as +roll/lute vs lich king/8 three times and the system tracks wins/losses on those three rolls). A system could easily be smart enough in old/new MUSH codes to do this. A +adventure system that initiates a scene when two or more folks agree to start it, then the first scene is so many of X rolls, it captures the first three they can't roll 12 until they get three successes. The +next part can see if they've done the rolls and to what degree and advance to the next scenario. This can be done on a MUSH (just like the Ares CG of being anywhere can be done in old MU softcode, rooms are not needed). I've literally done things to try and incentivize RP by saying do one of the following (argue with a stranger, get pick pocketed, stop a criminal, etc.) and post a scene to get some XP and no one posts scenes.
I'm falling in line with if the culture doesn't incentivize on its own for failure, then its more like what everyone has been saying. Folks just want to roll their good skill and win. I've played all walks of Mu genre, and comics are my favorite because those are the ones where more folks tend towards the sparkle rotation. They spotlight this week but spend a few weeks letting others rotate through the spotlight. @Ghost had something of this concept to transfer to other genres in his wrestling talks when saying the loser takes the fall to help make the winner look better. Or the Loser poses the results but not in a manner of, the sun was in my eyes cause I would have won on a thousand other days. Not everyone on Comic mu*s takes the fall like that, but more often than not that's where I see failure being more accepted as part of the rotation to get back to your spotlight time.
The thing that makes comics different is everyone is a snowflake, they just have their unique thing. Batman, Superman, Zatanna and Wonderwoman can rotate being badass because they each have a unique thing they tend to do. Some blurred lines with Superman and Wonderwoman sure, but they can juggle enough between backstories that they can take turns being masters of kick assery. Most comics places aren't always stat based and more folks look to the descriptions (can lift X amount of pounds, or master of fist-jitsu, or withstand heat of sun).
I don't know if this is going anywhere, but I think a game that focuses less on the rolls and more on the story may be better towards incentivizing IC failure system-wise; and good players, regardless of system, are going to make failing into a story no matter what I think.