Vampire 5E Games?

[ZombieGenesis]

With the PDFs coming out in a few weeks I was just wondering if there were any Vampire 5E games in the works?

[Thenomain]

@zombiegenesis

Is there an advance copy of the PDF out there that could be used for this?

[Bobotron]

@thenomain

There isn't. PDFs won't drop until August 2nd when stuff starts going out. People who preorder get a free PDF coupon via email and via the book (so 2 total), and PDFs go on sale then as well, though.

@ZombieGenesis
There was someone who posted a thread stating they wanted to start a V5 MU*, but I don't know how that went, since he seemed like he wanted to automate everything, and there are significant changes that don't make it easy to just tweak the existing WoD code. Plus with the 27 page preview we now have things that, while they'd make a MU* work a little better (Chronicle Tenets and Beliefs, codified character goals and such), there's a lot of material that we don't know what are (Aggravated and Superficial Willpower Damage is one of the biggest jump-outs).

I preordered and plan to post a long review once I get my PDF and get it read, as I'm really excited for V5 personally. But I don't think it'll be as simple as 'Okay, it's released, let's make V5 Sandbox By Night' like you can now.

I also don't know how V5 will do with the WoD MU* community when common complaints for new WoD games are 'NO SABBAT NO PLAY' and such, and V5 is explicitly 'NO SABBAT' initially to the point of no rules for them in the first 3 books.

[SunnyJ]

hoists the 'NO SABBAT NO PLAY' sign!

[Bobotron]

@sunnyj

You'll be waiting a while then, as the Sabbat book is announced but no projected date for release.

[Enoch]

@bobotron What are the announced books coming out?

[SunnyJ]

@bobotron I get this vibe that the people in Paradox really love their Camarilla stories. Then again, I think so poorly of the Anarch Movement as a PG-13 Sabbat that... maybe I am just a hater. u__u

[Bobotron]

@enoch

Core in August. Other stuff includes an ST screen, a chronicle planner/journal and special dice to make it easier to count successes (but the game is written to be played with d10s).
Camarilla and Anarch in September.
Sabbat at some nebulous point down the road.

@SunnyJ
To an extent, but the Sabbat were added much later in 1e and 2e playable material. Plus the metaplot for V5 has specific stuff the Sabbat is heavily involved in, which pushes them generally out of the 'main stage' of initial play focus anyway. If the Sabbat book focuses on the Gehenna Crusades going on, they'll have a lot of neat stuff to play with that can intersect back into the other two Sects.

[SunnyJ]

@bobotron Sabbat can be super neat. I will give you this, though: I have only played one oWoD MUX ever, and most Sabbat characters there were a god damn shit show. I totally understand the worries of a lot of game runners about the Sabbat. I just like to think we can do better.

[Bobotron]

@sunnyj

The problem is the players, on a wide scale. The themes of Sabbat really need to be enforced and codified on a game where they are supported; sandboxy stuff just doesn't do it (just like sandboxy stuff doesn't make Camarilla politicking work well at all). Also, different people have different expectations about Sabbat because of how they were weaned into it. I play in a Sabbat LARP RL that exemplifies this problem, with people ranging from 'what we gonna keel tonight?!' through 'We have things that need to be done as a diocese' to 'FUCK YOUR HIERARCHY IMMA VAMPRE IMMA DO WHAT I WANT'.

Focus is the key. I feel like the V5's Gehenna Crusade setup, where there may have been a Fourth Sabbat Civil War (unconfirmed, but hinted at/implied in Beckett's Jyhad Diary) and them ACTUALLY getting to do what they're meant to do (go fucking kill ancients and Antediluvians) will make Sabbat easier to manage.

[ZombieGenesis]

This is semi-off topic but...with the staggered release of the books any idea how they are shipping the slip case edition? Have they said if those will just be shipping in September when all three books will be available?

[Bobotron]

@zombiegenesis

Slipcase ships all together in September. You'll get your PDF email beginning of August for your core though.

[ZombieGenesis]

@Bobotron That's what I figured. Thanks!

Also RE: Sabbat. It's not just the Sabbat that leads to shit shows it's that entire "fuck the world" mentality. I played on an X-Game recently that had a Brotherhood set up. It immediately devolved into gore fests of things like playing football with human heads and things like that. Now I'm all for "edgy" RP but this was beyond even my levels of acceptance. And when called on it the ringleaders of the Brotherhood pitched a huge stinker fit and, in the end, it actually pushed players away from the game. Which is too bad because, aside from that, the game was pretty good. It was funny because I'd seen the same shit go down on games that allowed the Sabbat. I don't understand what it is about those types of factions (Sabbat, Brotherhood) that immediately sends people down the "murder-murder-kill-fun-murder-kill" rabbit hole.

[Bobotron]

@ZombieGenesis
A lot of that I feel stems from the 1e 'terror murder kill' Sabbat that sticks in a lot of peoples' minds.

Separately, to swing this back onto topic, @ZombieGenesis , I would love to work on a V5 game (to be fair, I'd love to go back to working on an OWoD game at all). I am still reserving some judgement but I've loved everything I've read so far, from the lead-in to the new status quo to the revised combat and Discipline stuff we've seen.

[SunnyJ]

@zombiegenesis I think a lot of people mistake 'being a monster/bad ass' with being as evil and bizarre as possible, which in turn makes them cartoony. They think they are RPing Mads Mikkelsen's Hannibal Lecter when they are just doing the Eli Roth remake of Devil's Rejects.

[Thenomain]

I adored Bloodlines so much that I want to absorb the Anarch aspect as the best way to showcase monsters vs. other monsters before adding in shovelheads. Even "fixed" (Revised) Sabbat did nothing for me, but I accept that people accept that they were essentially Black Dog gore-porn because...well, Black Dog.

Bloodlines made Malkavians far more than fishmalks (the two best sections in the game were Malkavian), so it's possible to make Sabbat credible.

I suppose.

Maybe.

I have no plans on designing code for 5e, but you never know.

[Bobotron]

@thenomain

See, and I'm opposite. IT did a good job of showing a Malk with the visions and such... but the Bloodlines Malk is the worst example of a fishmalk ever.

ETA: Honestly, until we see more, I don't know what we'd need for other code. A die roller that can differentiate regular and Hunger dice, a Rouse roller, and then standard apply damage stuff. But we don't know what things like Stains, or other new materials do yet.

[Thenomain]

@bobotron said in Vampire 5E Games?:

the Bloodlines Malk is the worst example of a fishmalk ever

Which one? The party girl, the psychiatrist, or the PC?

The PC Malk was just fun, and you could see the Malkavian Madness Network working behind the scenes to make it a drastically different game than any other PC. There's a point in the game where the newscaster on your apartment's TV is accusing you of being a vampire, but the game never showcases it. (Unlike the fish joke. Which was hilarious.)

Sure, PC Malk was more fishmalky than the others (tho I never got the impression it was wacky to be wacky, but wacky because can't focus), but the others are the absolute best portrayals of a Malkavian I have ever seen. So two out of three is pretty good.

[Bobotron]

@thenomain

The PC is a bad example of a Malkavian, as she's the 'bouncy funny crazy' that infested 1e and 2e Masquerade. Therette is alright, and Rosa is Rosa (honestly, I still see more Thin-Blooded seer in her than Malkavian, but I acquiesce that she's a Malk Thin-Blood most likely).

[Lithium]

@bobotron @Thenomain is talking about Grout the Malkavian Primogen who you have to go 'rescue' who was a psychiatrist before his embrace, the recordings he leaves behind, and his mansion itself, are awesome.