Spirit Lake - Discussion

[faraday]

@too-old-for-this said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

Why wouldn't anyone expect a flood of interest in something new and different?

History? Look at the Advertisements board for other games that have opened in the past year or so. They weren't exactly flooded with apps. And a lot of games in the last, say, five years or so have been quite modest in size.

Does anyone really expect their video to be the one that goes viral?

[Tinuviel]

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

I think that's assuming an awful lot of ill will based on a random comment from one person who isn't even on staff.

Then they shouldn't have spoken as if they were staff, or in possession of knowledge we are not. Until it is corrected by actual staff, I'm going to assume it is correct.

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

But giving staff grief for making a tough call to try to make a quality game? That's not cool.

Making a complaint based on a decision is not 'giving staff grief.'

[faraday]

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

But giving staff grief for making a tough call to try to make a quality game? That's not cool.

Making a complaint based on a decision is not 'giving staff grief.'

Umm... it kinda is? Especially when said complaint gets dragged across several pages of posts. And especially when it's in direct contradiction of the "Rules of Engagement" for the Ads section.

This is not the place to criticise or attack either those games or their runners.

[Tinuviel]

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

Umm... it kinda is?

If having a complaint is "giving grief" in your world, I don't want to live there.

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

Especially when said complaint gets dragged across several pages of posts.

That's the nature of a forum.

@faraday said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

And especially when it's in direct contradiction of the "Rules of Engagement" for the Ads section.

Then it'll be split off.

[GangOfDolls]

@faraday My intention isn't to be contrarian but I think it needs to be qualified that the kind of game we're talking about has dictated application response.

Certain themes/genres have larger appeal and fanbases than others. I don't think its necessarily coincidence that the WoD games that have opened recently or might eventually open (hi Miami) roll up into the urban fantasy/modern horror niche that tends to have a fairly wide response base.

Something a little more niche in terms of IP or theme is probably also going to have a different level.

I guess the thing I'm kind wondering is - while I don't assume bad actions or intent on the part of staff, it does seem a little unable to read the room that genres and themes that have tended to garner stronger application responses and tend to have a larger draw in the MU* community wouldn't pull in a large number of applicants. Especially because there's such a noticeable lack of operating above stall speed or open games in this wider genre right now.

It's a lucky break that their timing was so good but it is a bit surprising that they didn't seem to be aware that a good chunk of the community wants to play in these types of games?

[Too Old For This]

@faraday Yes, look at them. How many of the advertised game are a new alternative to the high-magic setting that people have been craving (and not getting) from Arx? Calaveras, which is I believe the only other actual new game to open recently (Horror MUX is just a retread of Lovecraft) is a no-magic soap opera-ish type of game. So not likely something that would appeal to the playerbase that's been salivating over Arx's long-awaited magic system. shrug I'm seeing this at a glance after two days, its not that difficult to notice.

[Tinuviel]

@too-old-for-this Rural/Urban fantasy based on some very popular series for which people have repeatedly expressed interest... Advertised on a place that was routinely lambasted as a haven for WoD fans...

[Too Old For This]

@tinuviel I'm trying to leave the WoD games out of it since they've been pretty quiet on that front. I'm mostly looking at equable games. And the only other high fantasy games I can think of are Arx and Ithir. Ithir hasn't been advertised or really even talked about (until that one guy complained about it), so its smaller numbers are expected. But people have been waiting and wanting a high-magic, high-fantasy setting for awhile now, and this is the only other game that has that.

[faraday]

HorrorMUX, Lovecraft, Stranger Things...there have been several "urban fantasy/modern horror" games open in the past year or so, and none of them took off like this. I think that's a testament to this staff hitting on an unmet need. Good for them.

Folks want to think they should have anticipated the popularity and planned differently? Fine. But filling up an ad thread with pages of negativity because a game was so interesting and popular it "sold out"? That just strikes me as shooting yourselves in the foot, honestly. We want more games? We need to encourage creators, not discourage them.

[Pacha]

This looks like a fun game. Very good luck to the makers and those who made it in before it closed. I hope it turns out to be a lot of fun.

To those who missed out, we all know that MU people are notoriously flakey, so I am sure there will be some spaces before too very long.

[Too Old For This]

@faraday Conversely, if people can't handle some constructive criticism (and I don't think you can call anything I've said acerbic or hate-filled or even derogatory) then they probably aren't the people that should be running games. I made my initial observation and left it at that. I even qualified it by saying that was my observation but to take it with a grain of salt. You've been the one continuing to harp on people being negative and dragging it out further.

But since you mentioned it. HorrorMUX is a retread of Lovecraft, they're the same game by the same people. And neither HorrorMUX nor Stranger Things were high-magic, which was my point from the start. Not the urban fantasy. High magic. That's what people have been wanting lately. Welcome to the only game other than Arx to advertise magic for players.

[Sunny]

I'm disappointed, but I understand. I wish you guys all the best in the project. I'd had high hopes and was pretty jazzed, but the person I was planning on apping with is literally out of the country for another week. It really does suck to be shut out like this, even if I do get why it was done. Ow.

Hope the people who managed to get in in the less than 24 hours it was open have a good time.

ETA: It's probably for the best, really. If the movement on this game is going to be anything approaching this level of need-for-responsiveness to keep up and or participate, I don't have time anyway.

[peasoupling]

@too-old-for-this said in Spirit Lake: An Original Modern Fantasy Game:

But since you mentioned it. HorrorMUX is a retread of Lovecraft, they're the same game by the same people.

It's a pretty different horror game by the same people, though? As in, I had a blast on Lovecraft for a while, but Horror MUX really isn't for me at all.

[Arkandel]

I see nothing wrong here. Sure, staff could have made it more clear they were only going to open the game for that many characters, but they never said otherwise either, and it's not like anyone invested weeks pouring hopes and dreams into a character for nothing.

Then again no one attacked them over it either. It's fine to express disappointment, and those who did were pretty civil about it.

It is interesting though this game got so popular so fast where others not quite unlike it didn't.

[Pacha]

I think actually this game is fairly unique in the market at the moment.

There are urban fantasy/horror things, yes, if you want to be a hapless mortal at the hands of powerful monsters.

There is Arx, which has elements of magic, but not easily accessible or widely available and not for everybody.

There are superhero games, but that is a different sort of niche for the most part.

There is a real dearth right now of 'wod style' games where you can app into an urban fantasy setting and have magical powers or whatever available from the outset and I think this is what it has tapped into and appealed to.

[SunnyJ]

@faraday This game is WoD, but 'none of that weird theme' . Where are the WoD games? Where are the modern supernatural horror games? Nowhere. This game just found a starving player base after the fall of WoD. How hard is this to understand?

[Tinuviel]

@sunnyj It reads to me like it's low level Mage without the bullshit. Which... is what most people want out of Mage from what I've seen.

[Apos]

I can understand people being disappointed, but I'm honestly impressed they imposed a cutoff. Takes a lot of guts to do that, knowing the kind of griping it'll get. It is to their credit, and speaks to people being willing to make hard choices to keep the kind of game they want.

[saosmash]

People who are expecting high magic or a high fantasy Arx alternative will be disappointed anyhow, since that isn't what it is.

I'm also sorry for those who wanted to play and didn't make it. Apps may open again in the future when some of the excitement has died down and the staffers on the game have recovered from the zerg rush. Otherwise I strongly encourage people who feel this thirst to think about game building. Like ... more low fantasy modern games that aren't WoD. People clearly want that. A lot.

[Arkandel]

@saosmash Also let's not discount the platform itself. A lot of the positive comments I've read the last 24 hours came from people who hadn't used Ares before but were very pleasantly surprised at the facilities it offered - a web-based CGen, notifications and forums readable on a browser, lots of ways to create and join scenes, an automated combat system, etc.

That counts too.