Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?

[Ghost]

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@krmbm said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

The? No. It shows that it is A way to get story.

That's your opinion as a person that thinks inter-personal RP via staff NPCs is fine.

Mine (as someone who does not think it's fine) is that I just saw Sue get a cool new weapon because she went 18-holes with StafferBob, and I did not get anything because I don't enjoy that particular flavor of RP and didn't jump on StafferBob's putter.

I may be completely wrong and pettily jealous, but now I'm completely wrong and jealous over here, on a game where I'm more comfortable with how staff uses their NPCs.

Why is this being presented as if it's a problem? If someone is going to be completely wrong and pettily jealous -- and behave in accordance with those feelings -- I don't want them on my game anyway, so it sounds to ME like in this scenario, literally everyone is winning.

Just wanting to understand, so I'm asking to clarify.

Are you saying that if Bob is upset and jealous that Steve got a shiny cool weapon with great stats after 18 sessions of TS with a staffer (and that Bob has not had this opportunity made available to him), that Bob's behavior is petty and that if he is removed from the game everyone wins?

If that is what you are saying, then I disagree.

ETA: Realistically, I get that me working 365 a year to afford a sports car is the slow standard, but if some 20 year old dude fucks a cougar and gets gifted a Ferrari for it, I'm still gonna be like: "Yeah, fuck those guys".

[Wretched]

Some of ya'll have never had to answer jobs about players wanting to know their relationship status with NPC's they were TSing after a staffer quits and it shows.

[surreality]

@Wretched You are goddamned murder on this keyboard, mister.

[Auspice]

I will make dragons for y'all.

My favorite to this day was the Maleificent-inspired green. She was amazing.

ETA: that I wrote for someone else that is. My favorite that I received was my bronze on HT.

[bear_necessities]

@Wretched said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Some of ya'll have never had to answer jobs about players wanting to know their relation ship status with NPC's they were TSing after a staffer quits and it shows.

Gross.

[surreality]

@bear_necessities said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Wretched said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Some of ya'll have never had to answer jobs about players wanting to know their relation ship status with NPC's they were TSing after a staffer quits and it shows.

Gross.

This, for the record, is the only appropriate answer:

[Sunny]

@Ghost said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@krmbm said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

The? No. It shows that it is A way to get story.

That's your opinion as a person that thinks inter-personal RP via staff NPCs is fine.

Mine (as someone who does not think it's fine) is that I just saw Sue get a cool new weapon because she went 18-holes with StafferBob, and I did not get anything because I don't enjoy that particular flavor of RP and didn't jump on StafferBob's putter.

I may be completely wrong and pettily jealous, but now I'm completely wrong and jealous over here, on a game where I'm more comfortable with how staff uses their NPCs.

Why is this being presented as if it's a problem? If someone is going to be completely wrong and pettily jealous -- and behave in accordance with those feelings -- I don't want them on my game anyway, so it sounds to ME like in this scenario, literally everyone is winning.

Just wanting to understand, so I'm asking to clarify.

Are you saying that if Bob is upset and jealous that Steve got a shiny cool weapon with great stats after 18 sessions of TS with a staffer (and that Bob has not had this opportunity made available to him), that Bob's behavior is petty and that if he is removed from the game everyone wins?

If that is what you are saying, then I disagree.

It's not what I'm saying.

[Ghost]

@Sunny Then I misunderstood. Could you rephrase?

[Sunny]

This isn't as hard as the word-twisting, hyperbole-spewing folks want it to be.

Sex and romance are a valid type of story content.

If a storyteller is otherwise ethical and includes these elements in their plots, there are no problems with it.

If someone objects to an ethical staffer including a sexual element in their plot because it is a sexual element (or romance, or mini-golf) and behaves in a petty, jealous fashion over it, and leaves my game, that's fine. They don't want to be on a game with sexual elements included in storylines, and I don't want someone who is going to react to sex with petty jealousy on my game. Thus, winning.

The problems with sex and romance that are being used to object to sex and romance in plotlines are not actually problems with sex or romance. They are problems with unethical staffers behaving unethically. That sex is the topic is irrelevant.

It's fine to prefer that sex and romance elements (or mini-golf) not appear in plots. However, it IS a preference, not an absolute, and presenting it like people using sex and romance in their plots are unethical or bad for using them? Nah.

[krmbm]

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

If someone objects to an ethical staffer including a sexual element in their plot because it is a sexual element...

Do you think that's why people object? Because that's not why.

[Sunny]

@krmbm said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

If someone objects to an ethical staffer including a sexual element in their plot because it is a sexual element...

Do you think that's why people object? Because that's not why.

Then why do people object to an ethical staffer using the element? I don't understand, you're right. "Ethical" is the KEY part of that sentence.

[Auspice]

I'd have just as much issue with BobStaffer exclusively taking Nick out to the gun range three days a week on his NPC for plot RP and denying that route of play to anyone else as I would if he was TSing Jane three days a week for plot and denying that route to anyone else.

It's basically elevating those people to a level no one else can ever have or hope to have and giving them access no one else can achieve. Giving them a window into plot that no one else can get to.

It just so happens that nine times out of ten, exclusive plot opportunities like this occur in relation to relationships. Other examples might be some esteemed leader taking on a protégé under their wing. That'd also get the side eye and cries of favoritism and the 'Why do they get this inner path to plot that the rest of us don't?! What did they do that's so special to make them an A-lister on the game while we're all just B-listers to look on while they take center stage?'

And part of it, too, lies in how the players handle it.

How often do we see those players stop RPing with the rest of the player base? How often do they start RPing more and more exclusively with Staff NPCs or just their BFFs where before they might have been more social? Sure it might be intended to 'okay you got the plot from me, Staff NPC, now go share it...' but then they go RP with other NPC, then three others,and only two weeks later do they RP with their besties who RP in a big circle for the next four months and outside of that little group the player base doesn't get that plot thread that the super special scene 'handed out' until nearly half a year later.

That is why people chafe at the idea. Because by the time they, the not-center-cast get to it, it's been picked over, investigated, maybe even solved and everyone is on to the next.

So IMO players who get these lauded spots should maybe feel some of that obligation to get out there beyond their usual circles and share and Staff should make sure they find other venues to share the plot to make sure it gets out, too, rather than just hand it to one singular person (even if they intend / hope that person spreads it because usually that spread takes many months and is what leads to people feeling really left out).

[surreality]

Genuine question: does anyone think everyone agrees on who is or isn't an ethical staffer in almost every case? (Depressing to contemplate, but true.) Having seen the way people are picked apart for even potential bias...

[Wretched]

Look, fucking your boss is fine if he's ethical!

[Sunny]

What I'm hearing, here, at the base level, is that it doesn't sound like people think that Staff NPCs should be used for Personal Plots for PCs. It's the personal that's the issue, not the content? Is this a better understanding?

[Ghost]

@Sunny Ahhhh. I get that. In fact, I agree.

It's a dangerous line to balance on, but I think that you're absolurely correct that if there's a sexual element to something a staffer is running, it's wrong to just assume someone is whoring and needs to be shamed for it. There are elements of story where it makes sense, and if people are going to be ugly and spread rumors just because NPC/PC plot involving booty happens? Fuck that. That's mean and one step (or perhaps no steps) removed from spreading a rumor around the high school that the "only reason Tiffany McCheerleader made Captain is because she blew Coach Stevens."

That shit is mean.

However, conversely, history has shown in many cases that staffers involving in that stuff has led to weak-willed staffers plying staff bias to certain players. Sometimes it's because TS/Cybersex, sometimes because of ACTUAL sex (Skype, in person), and other times just because staff wants to be baller and seed the posse who backs them up with bennies.

So I think it's totally valid that people worry about this and want to avoid it, but ultimately how they behave when concerned about that defines who the bag of dicks is in the situation.

It's totally legit to ask: "Hey, X player got a super Xwing and lightsaber through plot with staff. How can I get the same kind of gear through role play?" The player who got that stuff, that story may have involved some romance. However, if the staffer balks and tells you that it was specific to X player and then proceeds to have romance-based storylines that result in sweet swag, then I think it's fair to cry staff bias.

Worse yet, it's an old argument: If a 20 year old aids a 45 year old man in cheating on his wife, gets them divorced, and ends up the luxurious trophy wife...who is at fault? ((OMFG PLEASE DONT ANSWER THIS. THIS IS RHETORICAL))

[Sunny]

@Ghost

I completely agree. I just have a different perspective than the community on it; I'd rather fire the unethical staffer every single time than make a particular plot element off limits.

ETA: Those people are BAD STAFF, and it's going to manifest in eleventy billion other ways on your game besides bjs for bennies. Hell, if they're doing bjs for bennies they're doing you a favor because it's so stinking obvious that you don't have to wonder if it's a right decision on firing them.

[Snackness]

I mean yes, we are using TS and/or mini-golf but to me it's not about WHAT is being done, it's about a power imbalance. If I see an NPC screwing a PC I'm not thinking, "Wow, what a slut!" I'm thinking, how does this affect the game? Does this close certain doors to certain people? Is this favoritism? Is it going to become favoritism?

I'm cool with sex and/or romance. Go forth, do what you love. Get yourself a PC, TS 24/7, I do not mind. But if I see it affecting the game at large in a negative way I'm gonna nope on out of there.

[Auspice]

@Sunny said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Ghost

I completely agree. I just have a different perspective than the community on it; I'd rather fire the unethical staffer every single time than make a particular plot element off limits.

I'm not saying omg no sexual aspects in plot.
On Reno there was a plot where one of the PCs slept (off camera) with a plot NPC (only existed for the plot). All happened off camera AFAIK and was kind of humorous in context..

I am totally ok with that. It was hilarious and fit with the plot.

What I'm not OK with is long-term exclusive relationships with Staff NPCs be they romantic or not (like my protégé example). Because that's something inaccessible to other players. It's elevating one player beyond everyone else and giving them something no one else can have on a long-term basis.

You used games like SWtOR or DA in previous examples: that works there because YOU are the singular player. In ME, I can hit up Jack because it's just her and me. But on a MU not everyone can hit that because she is one jealous B.

[Snackness]

Okay so what if you're just a player? Not all of us can fire unethical staff.