You know, I just wanted to take a moment to say that I think the new policies regarding avoiding personal attacks will do everyone better in the long run, and are probably exactly what the hobby needs.

On the Hog Pit
I never really did agree that a place like the Hog Pit was necessary or "for the better". In fact, I think the concept of it was a lot like "The Purge". SURE give everyone a place where they can murder and commit crimes and it'll get it out of their system. The end result, I think, was that it normalized venom and incentivized people to attack one another for others' entertainment, to gain ground with fellow bullies, and to take one's personal issues out on victims for sport.

On going forward
It occurs to me that for YEARS there hasn't been a real gathering for people who MU to get together and be a COMMUNITY that actually enforced...respectful behavior. Sure, the Hog Pit was "opt-in" but it was easily the most popular place on the forum and bleed-over was constant. Every other day it seemed a topic needed to be moved to the Hog Pit because people were being nasty.

In short, ACTUALLY having a place where people can gather as a community to be respectful and (dare I say) neighborly will do people good in the long run. People were -afraid- to join MSB because of the venom, and now with the new policies and attitude in place I think you'll end up getting a lot of the nicer, more constructive types to feel welcome.

No offense to the people who like the L&L games, but this thought came to my head:

LORDS AND LADIES CHARACTER SHEET:

INSTRUCTIONS: Fill in the blanks, then you're ready to go.

My name is __________ of House ________ and I'm fucking __________, but I'm supposed to be fucking __________.

Check THIS out...

New Alien RPG is coming. Why this is intriguing (especially in a mush sense) is because this TT RPG is boasting tools to run 2 different kinds of games...

1. Campaign mode. Long term. Etc.

2. Cinematic mode, which is designed for 1 shots and single nights of gaming.

Cinematic mode may contain some tools and ideas (perhaps even systems) that might work well in some mush event contexts.

Either way, preorders start 5 days from now, and once the pre-order is verified you get the Cinematic Rules PDF starter kit.

Oh...and yes...it includes both "Ripley and the Nostromo" styled setting information (I.e. Space truckers come across alien eggs and Weyland-Yutani fuckery) as well as...

COLONIAL MARINES, BETCH

Squeeeeeeeeee.

In that light, I apologize for calling @saosmash a mean thing.

I missed an opportunity to private message or reply with something like "hey, come on, I'm not trying to piss on something you like, I'm just being snarky about a concept I don't get"

But instead I was like:

I missed an opportunity to present myself as who I am in spirit, and that's 100pct on me.

I think you did a good thing in the end @shangexile . I commend you for that.

@zombiegenesis I think that's an excellently worded summary, to be honest.

Even right now, the people who are still banned (some who are coming back to start trouble) are just gathering and saying nasty things about pretty much anyone who ever told them no or disagreed with them. It's super toxic and it's really not constructive to any sort of rationally comfortable environment that reasonable people would want to be a part of. It's just NOT OK.

I'd originally intended to hang back even if my ban was lifted, but seeing that an attempt is being made to course correct from "unmitigated personal attacks" to "trying to be more positive and foster an environment of respect"? I'm hanging around to see what's up. I'm glad to keep communicating with a vast number of you.

I think the major issue in the end is the concept of "reputational income" and what happens if you have a bad reputation being in this constant "eye of the beholder" state with some very disrespectful, very demanding, and very unfair people. You see a lot of posts from them with the "you need to change your behavior or else..." verbiage from them, and I recently likened it to someone like the mafia asking you "are you sure this is what you want?" after an extortion attempt.

Maybe people can just be regular people, right? With flaws, who make mistakes, who aren't perfect, and who don't need to live up to the demands and expectations of the same 15 or so blowhards with superiority complexes that demand everyone meet their standards or face ridicule/belittlement?

I've chimed off on this before (re: FC sexuality), but I don't think the concern is so much on the sexuality of the character. I think it has more to do with how the character will behave under the control of the player.

I have no issues with a female Captain America or even a gay Captain America (there might be a compelling story to tell in Steve Rogers arriving in the modern age and realizing that he can be gay in 2017 with a certain amount of respect that wasn't prevalent in 1941).

I like to think that players would approach those gender/sexuality issues as a means of compelling story.

HOW and EVER...

I think the real concern people have is in a Captain America transported to 2017 as FUCK EVERYTHING THAT MOVES BONDAGE SEX SWING NEVER INVOLVES IN ANY STORY AND SENDS EVERYONE DICK PICS Captain America, thus really putting aside any meaningful role playing with the character concept in favor of using the character as a sandbox Shang Alt.

We'd seen mentions recently of gay fish Daken uncomfortably hitting on people IC and OOC, and mentions of Sex Magic Sorcerer Supreme Dr Strange.

So, in summary, I think the concern is less on gender/sexuality of the FC and more on whether or not they'll be used like a Harvey Weinstein extension of the player's whims, thus becoming more of a distraction than a contribution.

Friend's wife and fellow D&D group member has gone from ER to ICU to ventilator and sedation. Double pneumonia. Her Covid experience is going the wrong direction. Fuck this virus.

I've already got one memorial to attend after this nightmare ends so please do not go through airports unless it is absolutely necessary. Do not go to bars and restaurants unless absolutely necessary.

It's been made pretty clear by now that this virus doesnt care how little you're afraid of it. Dont fuck around and find out.

Counter-opinion:

There were different themes in behavior that I saw leading up to the bannings, with some people being far more disrespectful and venomous in their approach than others. Heck, I was even DM'ed to be informed what a slimy piece of shit I was, though in jest I was doing a little tongue-in-cheek trolling of the situation, myself.

If the focus of the forum going forward is to try to be respectful and positive, then some of those entitled personalities are best left off at that new forum they made (where when I was linked to it already saw personal attacks, fuck-marry-kill lists with actual people being listed as kill, etc). This forum isn't a paid-for service where users are entitled to getting what they want, nor is it required to maintain a level of "trust" even when "trust" is often mistaken for "doing what we say we want or else".

I recommend people who don't like it to let it go and glomp about it at that other place that's going to return to the same toxic behavior patterns.

@Auspice said in Disabilities and Mental Illness as Character Traits:

I also don't feel comfortable when someone has a disability for their character and they always have an 'escape' written in (is wheelchair bound, but can walk sometimes, is blind, but can see shapes and light now and then... etc.) that always comes into play when it's... convenient.

I hate that shit, mostly because the player took extra freebie points for being blind, but then doesn't roleplay it. Or, they took the points for taking some kind of BLIND flaw only to negate it with cybernetics.

It's like: "Dude, BLIND means CANNOT SEE. If your guy has cybernetic eyes, they can see, and therefore are no longer BLIND. If you can barely hear and then get a hearing aid or cochlear implants, the -4 to awareness checks doesn't apply."

But yes, I agree. Disabled but not is a peeve. It doesn't make me uncomfortable, I just think it's stupid, metagamey, and usually tied to jerking around with a character sheet.

But let's get to brass tacks, here.

House of the Dragon has GRRM's name on it. GRRM is an executive producer, writer, etc on it. GRRM has spoken positively about diversity of casting and has said he plans to introduce more BIPOC characters in upcoming novels...whenever those get finished. If GRRM felt it was so important that the Velaryons couldn't be black because of all of the reasons @Nymeria states that they simply cannot budge on non-white characters in their MUSH, he would have fought it tooth and nail.

It's not the ACTUAL CONTENT CREATOR who is taking a hard-line stance, crying about "woke SJW bullshit", saying racist things, or literally making the news for their toxicity. It's a pair of people who have decided more than once to gatekeep/act like the owners of someone else's actual work and do toxic things online in the name of someone who doesn't support their behavior.

With that in mind, I cannot say why I would allow those people to affect my legacy by remaining involved with them, why I would in any way support their MUSH, and hope that they get fired/cut loose to be left as a couple of MU hosts running a text-based chatty game in a world that they don't own.

My GM approach:

I feel that sometimes GMs get caught in the trap of writing some puzzle or riddle that feels obvious to them, but then in roleplay it's like you're in a game of 30 questions but aren't sure if the wrong answer is gonna get your PC killed:

"Is it...a chair?"
"No, guys, the riddle clearly says 'I wait by the eastern wing of the sky in june'..."

My method:

1. Decide the kind of investigation (murder, robbery, etc)
2. Decide what really happened. (The cook killed the maid!)
3. Get an idea of 2-3 ways it could be solved, leave some evidence, and then let the players show you how they intend to solve it.

If they head towards one of the 2-3 ways you were prepared for? Great. If not...wing it and have fun with it.

Edit. Other things.

• I will let them fail, but mostly if they try to metagame (see next point) through it or ignore the investigation for other things.
• I will require players to actually roll relevant dice to receive evidence/information no matter how much PlayerA tries to convince me how it could be researched over the internet with no experience in real life.

I think the main point is to give the players a scenario to run through where they're doing stuff. So you have to let them do stuff to resolve it, and railroading never makes players feel like they're accomplishing anything. But, if they're successful I usually end the investigation with someone stolen from other pieces of fiction, like a car chase or a hostage situation.

@Devrex yeah you can filter by game system and by time, so I have to set my desired times and do the systems I want one by one to make sure I'm not getting a hundred dnd games. No offense to people who love dnd but I'm now in my early 40s and I don't know how many more "_________ cleric" or "_______ rogue" I have left in me.

I think 15-20 is fine. I rationalize this by saying "I would be willing to buy dinner for my GM" so I set the bar at how much I'd be willing to pay for dinner.

@Devrex Yeah, there is a downside to SPG. About 90% of the games are D&D and there's no "exclude this game system from search" option, so there's some "go fish" involved.

The other issue with SPG is some of these people are asking $25-$35 per session on weekly games, and most of the people doing this are the ones trying to turn being a GM into a full time job. So one game may net some GM 500/month. Shit, I saw one this week where a guy was asking $75/session per player. There's also something different with the GMs who are trying to supplement an entire income from SPG; the ones I've been in contact with tend to be really militant about filling those player slots and booting people for being absent because it's more about the income and less about the game.

Regardless, I don't think I'd ever charge more than $15/session, but it is a good platform for finding GMs who are actually looking to produce a quality game experience, because if they're shit GMs their players will drop. There's something I like about the arrangement where I'm a paying customer and if they're flaky and keep canceling games I'm not risking a friendship by quitting.

@ZombieGenesis Right on. I'm always in the market for a good Supers system, because supers games are either way too "free form rpg" (BESM) for my tastes or are eye-meltingly crunchy (Champions). I haven't gone through the book post-beta, but I'm hoping they put in a solution for the challenge level system I found to be somewhat confusing.

@ZombieGenesis I actually looked up startplayinggames and have had pretty good success finding inexpensive GMs of quality games so far, and might throw my hat into running games for a little side cash.

My docket right now consists of V5 Vampire, Aliens, Walking Dead, Secret World (when I get it), and the new marvel rpg. I was also in on the kickstarter for Alchemy and that looks like it'll be a super sweet vtt for running streamed games.

@reimesu TTRPG has been good to me. More consistent, less drama, and my creativity isn't restricted by the social side-game. I'm fixing to run some v5 here soon.

@hobos said in Observation:

I'd feel less of a hypocrite if there was less attitude of "we're better than other people". The abolishing of that attitude is more what I was trying to accomplish, I suppose, rather than encouraging an environment of verbal fisticuffs.

And Macha said it's not about being "better", but "less vitriolic"... only, that kind of means the same thing, to me, and it doesn't align with the acts I've witnessed.

As Hella pointed out, the quiet is more due to people fearing that their happiness will be disrupted anyway if they try to talk about anything relevant. I'd love if Hella didn't feel that way because I would genuinely treasure an environment where her and people like her felt free to express themselves.

Unfortunately yeah it seems pretty unsolvable.

I would have also loved if back when people were jumping on someone with unfounded accusations... those people would've listened to anyone else who was trying to be a voice of reason and fairness.

But human nature is a pretty unsolvable conundrum, too.

I can't really make a post without taking a stab at a solution though, so how about... we try not to care if anyone tracks us down, and let our current behavior stand for itself if anyone does figure us out, because all that will do is let us know who our friends are... and we try to legitimately have better current behavior -- including being as actually fair as our theoretical code demands, when push come to shove?

LOL OMG I'm sorry I'm legitimately laughing RL at the degree of SWERRVVVVVE I detected in that post. Like: sweeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrve*dimPleWinkAtCamera seeWutIDudDatDere wiiiiink.

Poetic. I'll give it a 6.5.

heh I don't really even give a fuck anymore about putting effort into using nicer words to describe some of the people I've met in this club. I have met some of the strangest and most desperately full of shit people in my life in this hobby, and that's saying something since I've been at music industry parties and concert after-party shit. God it's so dumb. the amount that people care about any of this drama is just dumb. LOL the people in the hobby that are constantly high-browing like "they're the problem, not me", when you think about it, are less relevant in life's mysterious journey than an attempted musical reunion of Robert Palmer's weird clone dancers, but only without Robert Palmer. THAT is the level of relevancy this drama has in actual global terms. lol. The amount of "shit don't stink" around 9/10ths of the people who think their opinion "holds weight because I'm popular" is hilarious. What? Coolest kid in the fuckin' Power Rangers club at Walt Whitman High? That's you. You're the coolest person. -There-. I swear to you that the gates of Valhalla are -enthralled- with your life's story and importance because you think you're the "social ace" out of a society of people who "fight with each other over who's most important" in a hobby consisting of *roleplaying as Paul Fuckin Walker as 'sexy werewolf stud part 6' on a server with like...10 people on it.

I shouldn't type high. This is hilarious and just...dumb.
So dumb.
lol so dumb.
I gotta send this lol so...oh my god. so...so...sodumb.

Sorry gotta edit. I'm dyin' here. @Derp yall about to get like 30 "PROVE YOURSELF TO THE MORAL RIGHT THAT YOU'RE NOT A CORRUPT FUCKWIT, SLAAAAAY GHOST TO SATISFY OUR NEED FOR TRIBUTE."MESSAGES. Fuckin hilarious. Slay my "identity" and ban or whatever if you want or don't. Y'all know everyone's going to be watching to see if a new account like "NotGhost" shows up and you swept me back in under the curtain, anyway. lol jesus I am not good enough a writer to properly describe the level of 'this is dumb' I mean to convey...

@Macha said in Observation:

@Warma-Sheen Well, when you consider a LOT of the MU-threads of the title before, was a lot of negative talk about things, people playing there or here, and so on?

To be honest, if I /am/ playing somewhere, I'm not likely to talk about it. For reasons I would feel are obvious.

I'm playing all kinds of places right now that people don't want me to be at.

Or am I? idk. I'm currently into PBs with dark haired guys with stubble. Figure it out.

All jokes aside I 100% support you playing under the radar. Everyone should. It gives abusive personalities less of an attack surface.

@Warma-Sheen said in Observation:

abandonment

Was it really abandoned, though? really abandoned? <hand-wobble>

@hobos said in Observation:

People are going to act like people, pretty much all the time, I guess. But I'm probably weird because I almost prefer being reamed every time I open my virtual mouth on any issue, to the feeling that I am participating in selfish hypocrisy by posting here.

A bit to unpack, here. So you're saying that you prefer to be verbally accosted every time you open your mouth to participating in a "selfish hypocrisy" that has been mostly tame and quiet? I gotta say, you sound 100% purely dedicated to an environment filled with positivity and "normal human-type communicative behavior" and it shows!

Bizarre statement altogether, imo. It's kind of a "Scottie Pippen Fade Shot I'm not saying something factual but saying something potentially provocative but idk lol j/k grr i really mean this but not sure what this means" statement. It's not really helpful.

I think that if you look at it from a certain perspective, the rift was probably the most directly honest thing to happen in the hobby in probably 20 years.

Yanno, it's been a while.

I just wanted to point out and say how much I appreciate how civil this forum has become, and how it's become a lot less stressful to check in and see what's going on over here.

If there ever comes a time when someone is considering shutting the place down or turning over the DB to other people, hit me up.