Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?

[Alamias]

@faraday said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

This is the only active MUSH community forum I'm aware of, so like it or not IMHO it is a reflection of "the MUSH community".

If there are others, I'd love to know about them.

[surreality]

@Alamias Ditto that. Though I suspect there are only forums for any given specific game, other than the one that was around primarily for RPIs (which makes this place look like a Chuck E. Cheese by comparison, or did the last time someone linked a thread over there and I dared skim around a bit).

[Auspice]

@Ghost said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

@Auspice said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

@Ghost said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

I also think that with 51 votes saying they're happy and 46 saying either an outright NO or "somewhere in between", that there's a lot of people who aren't exactly comfortable and/or might be feel comfortable being vocal about it.

You're pretty insistent on pushing people into saying the hobby is bad/unfun which is... sort of going to make people feel like it's bad/unfun because it's like 'yeah there's this guy who just spouts a lot of negativity over there'. Self fulfilling prophecy yo.

Where's your boom gif now?!

Dont make me post the gif again, damn it. You goad me with your honeyed words and heroin taunts.

Srsly, tho? I swear I'm not trying to cram some point into a jar. I'm just saying: "Hey, there's clearly people who are unhappy on some level, so let's start talking about how we can be better."

I just hate to see this 46 people poll go entirely ignored without some attempt at forward movement.

A lot of it may be your language, then. You tend to use very negative, inflammatory "chicken little the sky is falling!!' language and then look around going 'Well what are you lot going to do about it?!' and I admit I can fall into that sometimes too and I am trying my best to stop.

A lot of being better is just fucking be better. Don't fuss over it. Don't theorycraft. Just do it.

[Sunny]

It being the only show in town doesn't make it more valuable / influential.

[Arkandel]

Why does a forum need to be influential to be valuable?

[Sunny]

@Arkandel said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

Why does a forum need to be influential to be valuable?

It doesn't. Slash is an or.

[Lotherio]

@Ghost said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

I also think that with 51 votes saying they're happy and 46 saying either an outright NO or "somewhere in between", that there's a lot of people who aren't exactly comfortable and/or might be feel comfortable being vocal about it.

Day late and dollar short. There was a statement made by you, I don't remember which thread. It pondered, are we all in the 'this one great thing happened on a MU' so therefore, 'Everyone is sort of trying to relive that glory.'

For me, I do have great stories, but every few years I end up with a better one. I continually think there is still more better yet to come. Some of us still enjoy it and think the best is yet to come.

Like, I thought I had seen it all a year or so ago, then @Ganymede decided their char wanted to build a defensive wall on a game to help defend against clans of Ulster. The RP and even prepping combat for a wall in FS3 was fun. The RP lasted a few sessions, then the combat started by having rams under turtles attack the wall (two vehicles for those familiar with FS3); which lead to a medic on the wall taking splinter (shrapnel) damage and the group rushing to figure out how best to help so they didn't lose the medic before the main fight.

There is new out there, but part of the reliving the past is that if one is holding onto the past as ideal, they might be missing the new fun stuff that is happening in the now.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Ghost said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

Hey, there's clearly people who are unhappy on some level, so let's start talking about how we can be better."

there are clearly people unhappy on some level everywhere, every day, in every hobby, all the time

[Arkandel]

@Sunny said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

@Arkandel said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

Why does a forum need to be influential to be valuable?

It doesn't. Slash is an or.

No, I get that, I wasn't responding to you per se.

It's just this idea in general that MSB (or any other community forum) is supposed, or meant to, have some kind of 'power' that it was never designed or meant to have. I keep reading that sort of thing - that it can't "bring games down" or "deliver justice" or "speak for the hobby" or... whatever it's supposed to be able to or not this week.

We're a neutral ground. That's all. We're game agnostic, there's no censorship unless people go waaaay too far, and that's... it. Hell, I'd close it down if we somehow were able to kill MUSHes we don't like through whatever magical powers we have because that's the exact opposite of what we do - this is about loving the hobby and wanting to communicate, bring its players together and elevate it, not to talk shit and get in the way of new or different ideas and approaches.

We don't dictate anything or claim to speak on behalf of anyone (let alone everyone) else.

[Sunny]

@Arkandel

Absolutely. I wasn't making my statement as a value judgment. It's not BAD, just because it's not significant to the greater community (I would argue that mudstats is probably a bigger deal). Certain people around here, if they aren't actually out and involved in things, seem to be under the mistaken impression that trends here, spats here, general behavior here has anything to do with out there.

This is a small community of mostly very jaded people, many of whom have a lot of trauma. People love to try and extrapolate -- it's a normal people thing to do -- and think that because the rate of trauma/jaded here is what it is, the greater mushing community is that way.

It's not.

[Pandora]

The answer is pretty easily and immediately 'No' for me. So much of my IC time is spent trying to be relevant that I am actually pleasantly surprised whenever I have an interaction that is just fun. I enjoy the moments that I enjoy, but they are fewer and further between than the payoff I get from any other hobby I have, whether it's writing, editing, reading, or redecorating my guinea pig enclosure.

When you add on top of that the fact that people begrudge you the fun you have or accomplishments you achieve, through passive aggressive IC or OOC communication, turning moments of happiness into the chore of carefully spot-checked and proof-read responses to bullshit accusations...

The less time you devote to this hobby, the more the bad stacks up versus the good. I don't have the free time/friend group I once had to MU for enough hours per day to break even, let alone come down on the side of 'yes'.

I love the hobby, don't get me wrong. But it's a bit like cigarette smoking I think, with the disclaimer that I've never been a smoker & am speaking from second-hand experience. I'm so used to doing this that I get antsy if I don't do it for a while, and I recognize that while the short bursts of pleasure are pleasant indeed, it's not great for my health.

[faraday]

@Arkandel said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

We don't dictate anything or claim to speak on behalf of anyone (let alone everyone) else.

The kind of influence I'm talking about is different though. This place brings MUSHers together outside of the games we play. It's where we discuss cross-game ideas and issues, share news about games and code and stuff, and just generally chit-chat about everything from knitting to Game of Thrones.

It's the MUSH Community Center.

That necessarily has an influence on peoples' perceptions, in one way or another. Are those perceptions accurate? Not necessarily, but they can still have an impact, encouraging or discouraging.

[Sunny]

@faraday said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

@Arkandel said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

We don't dictate anything or claim to speak on behalf of anyone (let alone everyone) else.

The kind of influence I'm talking about is different though. This place brings MUSHers together outside of the games we play. It's where we discuss cross-game ideas and issues, share news about games and code and stuff, and just generally chit-chat about everything from knitting to Game of Thrones.

It's the MUSH Community Center.

That necessarily has an influence on peoples' perceptions, in one way or another. Are those perceptions accurate? Not necessarily, but they can still have an impact, encouraging or discouraging.

I agree 100% that it influences the people who participate here. I am not suggesting it does not; clearly it does.

What I disagree with is that this data-set can be extrapolated to mean anything about the Bigger Community, because the Bigger Community doesn't care. Those that do know of it (but don't participate in it) often have nasty things to say about it (and often, everyone who participates here BECAUSE they participate here).

[Ganymede]

@Lotherio said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

Like, I thought I had seen it all a year or so ago, then @Ganymede decided their char wanted to build a defensive wall on a game to help defend against clans of Ulster. The RP and even prepping combat for a wall in FS3 was fun. The RP lasted a few sessions, then the combat started by having rams under turtles attack the wall (two vehicles for those familiar with FS3); which lead to a medic on the wall taking splinter (shrapnel) damage and the group rushing to figure out how best to help so they didn't lose the medic before the main fight.

I had the most fun with a PC in a long time doing all of that. The Fifth Kingdom had this neat feel of "we'z all gonna die so let's kill as many of them as we can take" set in a fantasy world similar to our own. It was like BSG, but with swords and sieges.

You make a good point, though, about seeking new things. That's why I joined Sometimes a Great Notion and Empire State Heroes. I want some new experiences because, for a year or so, I was enjoying very new experiences playing FS3 games. I enjoyed every moment of it.

And I finally broke into a superhero game yesternight with an excellent session that was sadly cut short because a tornado blew through my backyard.

Still, all good times. That's why I still enjoy the hobby. One day, I'll probably go to Arx, but I don't think I can handle a game like that right now.

[Sunny]

@Ganymede said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

One day, I'll probably go to Arx, but I don't think I can handle a game like that right now.

I'll be here when you're ready.

[faraday]

@Sunny said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

What I disagree with is that this data-set can be extrapolated to mean anything about the Bigger Community, because the Bigger Community doesn't care. Those that do know of it (but don't participate in it) often have nasty things to say about it (and often, everyone who participates here BECAUSE they participate here).

I think that we're aligned in principle, and just disagree with how much there IS a "Bigger Community" out there.

On the last few games I've played, the majority of active/engaged players self-identified as being engaged here. If you look at the AresCentral handles, you'll see a large degree of overlap with MSB usernames. Just based on my personal, anecdotal experience, most folks I know who are still active in the MU community are active here. Then there are the numbers Ark has reported about users/visits in the past here compared to activity stats on open MUSHes.

I know you play on Arx and it has a larger and more diverse playerbase - a lot of folks who would probably not identify as traditional MUSH players who come from other online RP communities. But just among what I'd call core MUSH players? I believe MSB captures a wide swath of the audience. We are not a huge community to begin with.

[Sunny]

@faraday said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

We are not a huge community to begin with.

I understand and acknowledge your perspective and your lived experience as being different from mine. Please understand that mine is actually different than yours. In my own personal, anecdotal experience, there are thousands of people actually playing these games, and people regularly underestimate how big the population is by a huge amount. If you spend ten minutes on the mudconnector forums, you will see a way bigger population. Yes, many of them are mud/RPI players, but mushers actually are in there too, mixed in with the rest of them. Have you ever checked out the reddit subthreads relating to the hobby? There's a ton of people, and very few of them are here.

Mushes aimed at the MSB/WORA/whatever audience are of course going to be full of MSB players? Games advertised here are of course going to have players from here. If you're not aware of the other communities and not advertising to them / trying to pull their players in? Of course it's going to be the same names you're familiar with seeing.

[faraday]

@Sunny said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

there are thousands of people actually playing these games

You're clearly including MUDs/RPIs in this tally and "the hobby", and I'm not. The number of self-identified MUSHes on MUDConnector is minuscule compared to the other genres. We're a sub-community within a larger community of "online text-based games".

It's not just a question of different experiences, it's a matter of different definitions.

[Sunny]

@faraday said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

@Sunny said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:

there are thousands of people actually playing these games

You're clearly including MUDs/RPIs in this tally and "the hobby", and I'm not. The number of self-identified MUSHes on MUDConnector is minuscule compared to the other genres. We're a sub-community within a larger community of "online text-based games".

Did you read my whole post, or stop there?

Yes, many of them are mud/RPI players, but mushers actually are in there too, mixed in with the rest of them.

ETA: I mean of course if you define 'core mushers' as 'people who are involved on MSB', then MSB is going to be 'mushers' for you. I'd prefer to include the thousands of people who do actually play MUSHES, not RPI/MUDs in my 'core mushers' definition because they are. Yes, the percentage is smaller. It's still a percentage.

[Auspice]