Geist Reconstruction

[3543thrh67]

@Coin I wanted to make a KRewe on my Sin-Eater. Though, getting others to respond was like pulling teeth. I was not overly enthused about making a Dunlin Krewe when it came up because everyone associated basically wanted it to be animal themed or acted like I would stop them from doing shit with other Dunlins because my interactions with them was limited.

[FiranSurvivor]

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

I guess we're talking about the Reach? I made a Geist there, but honestly have no room to talk because I was SUPER idle. Can you go into detail about why/how the Sphere was a pain in the ass?

Also Krewes are in no way a required part of Geist, its just an option. At least that was the feel I got from the rule book.

It was a pain in the ass because you were super idle and so was pretty much everyone else, and the lack of sphere cohesion (via any sort of anything) made it impossible to actually organize Sin-Eaters organically, which isn't the case in the other splats, which have other problems, but not that one!

I never said Krewes are required, but they are an integral part of the game. The entire concept of "we don't need organizational splats in our Geist game because Sin-Eaters make their own" falls absolute flat when you have a game full of Sin-Eaters that don't make Krewes.

Lack of Sphere Cohesion led to people being super idle? Bullshit. Just because there is no organizational structure doesn't mean you can't make interesting plots that involve the sphere. You have plenty of links that link ALL Sin-Eaters. Ghosts, the Underworld, more ghosts.

Sounds like shit staffing to me.

I was idle because of school, not because of a lack of mechanics to tie me to other Sin-Eaters. When I first read the Sin Eater book and saw the Underworld, I saw a veritable play ground that could lead to tons of interesting and fun plots, primarily for Sin-Eaters.

[Arkandel]

@FiranSurvivor said:

Sounds like shit staffing to me.

Probably. Sorry about that!

[Coin]

@FiranSurvivor said:

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

I guess we're talking about the Reach? I made a Geist there, but honestly have no room to talk because I was SUPER idle. Can you go into detail about why/how the Sphere was a pain in the ass?

Also Krewes are in no way a required part of Geist, its just an option. At least that was the feel I got from the rule book.

It was a pain in the ass because you were super idle and so was pretty much everyone else, and the lack of sphere cohesion (via any sort of anything) made it impossible to actually organize Sin-Eaters organically, which isn't the case in the other splats, which have other problems, but not that one!

I never said Krewes are required, but they are an integral part of the game. The entire concept of "we don't need organizational splats in our Geist game because Sin-Eaters make their own" falls absolute flat when you have a game full of Sin-Eaters that don't make Krewes.

Lack of Sphere Cohesion led to people being super idle? Bullshit. Just because there is no organizational structure doesn't mean you can't make interesting plots that involve the sphere. You have plenty of links that link ALL Sin-Eaters. Ghosts, the Underworld, more ghosts.

Sounds like shit staffing to me.

I was idle because of school, not because of a lack of mechanics to tie me to other Sin-Eaters.

Well, being idle and then saying that something was shit staffing sounds like shit logic to me. So I don't know. I'm sorry my experience doesn't line up with your idly proposed suppositions?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ETA: Especially fun since I'm going to guess you weren't even in the sphere when I staffed it! Though I could be wrong.

[FiranSurvivor]

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

I guess we're talking about the Reach? I made a Geist there, but honestly have no room to talk because I was SUPER idle. Can you go into detail about why/how the Sphere was a pain in the ass?

Also Krewes are in no way a required part of Geist, its just an option. At least that was the feel I got from the rule book.

It was a pain in the ass because you were super idle and so was pretty much everyone else, and the lack of sphere cohesion (via any sort of anything) made it impossible to actually organize Sin-Eaters organically, which isn't the case in the other splats, which have other problems, but not that one!

I never said Krewes are required, but they are an integral part of the game. The entire concept of "we don't need organizational splats in our Geist game because Sin-Eaters make their own" falls absolute flat when you have a game full of Sin-Eaters that don't make Krewes.

Lack of Sphere Cohesion led to people being super idle? Bullshit. Just because there is no organizational structure doesn't mean you can't make interesting plots that involve the sphere. You have plenty of links that link ALL Sin-Eaters. Ghosts, the Underworld, more ghosts.

Sounds like shit staffing to me.

I was idle because of school, not because of a lack of mechanics to tie me to other Sin-Eaters.

Well, being idle and then saying that something was shit staffing sounds like shit logic to me. So I don't know. I'm sorry my experience doesn't line up with your idly proposed suppositions?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ETA: Especially fun since I'm going to guess you weren't even in the sphere when I staffed it! Though I could be wrong.

I was idle to the point where I don't even think I can say I played. I made the character, had one scene, and then focused on school. I'm saying it SOUNDS like shit staffing, not that it was. When I hear "It was a lack of spherical cohesion!" I hear an excuse. Plenty of other spheres that have in depth spherical organizations and hierarchy can be just as idle.

You could have been running amazing shit and I wouldn't have unidled. So my idleness wasn't the fault of anyone and I wasn't pinning for things to make me unidle.

One thing I do remember from my time there, is that there was no coded Underworld. Is it possible the lack of the Sin-Eater's main playground helped fuel the sphere's idleness?

[Coin]

@FiranSurvivor said:

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

@Coin said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

I guess we're talking about the Reach? I made a Geist there, but honestly have no room to talk because I was SUPER idle. Can you go into detail about why/how the Sphere was a pain in the ass?

Also Krewes are in no way a required part of Geist, its just an option. At least that was the feel I got from the rule book.

It was a pain in the ass because you were super idle and so was pretty much everyone else, and the lack of sphere cohesion (via any sort of anything) made it impossible to actually organize Sin-Eaters organically, which isn't the case in the other splats, which have other problems, but not that one!

I never said Krewes are required, but they are an integral part of the game. The entire concept of "we don't need organizational splats in our Geist game because Sin-Eaters make their own" falls absolute flat when you have a game full of Sin-Eaters that don't make Krewes.

Lack of Sphere Cohesion led to people being super idle? Bullshit. Just because there is no organizational structure doesn't mean you can't make interesting plots that involve the sphere. You have plenty of links that link ALL Sin-Eaters. Ghosts, the Underworld, more ghosts.

Sounds like shit staffing to me.

I was idle because of school, not because of a lack of mechanics to tie me to other Sin-Eaters.

Well, being idle and then saying that something was shit staffing sounds like shit logic to me. So I don't know. I'm sorry my experience doesn't line up with your idly proposed suppositions?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ETA: Especially fun since I'm going to guess you weren't even in the sphere when I staffed it! Though I could be wrong.

I was idle to the point where I don't even think I can say I played. I made the character, had one scene, and then focused on school. I'm saying it SOUNDS like shit staffing, not that it was. You could have been running amazing shit and I wouldn't have unidled. So my idleness wasn't the fault of anyone and I wasn't pinning for things to make me unidle.

Fair enough. I don't even actually care enough to argue anyway, so that's good.

For what it's worth, I wasn't even supposed to be in charge at the time I staffed. There was just no TL and I ended up trying to run something that people kept claiming interest in without any real... follow through.

Not enough punchy-time action for them, I guess.

[FiranSurvivor]

Its also likely the people who play Sin Eaters are lazy shits and no amount of Courtly Intrigue will bring them out of their IC apartments.

[Derp]

@Coin

I only ever played Mage there, and that only in the last year, but I managed to hear a whole bunch of shit while I was there. "I wasn't supposed to be in charge, but..." is one of those things I heard more often than not. Seems that staff turnover was high. Which I guess a game with that many staffers should be unsurprising given who was at the top of the ladder.

But the spheres in general seemed pretty dead while I was there, and no amount of crunchy stuff was going to move them to give-a-fuck status. I'm not sure that this lies on any one person, so much as the atmosphere of the game itself. Geist might have been dead and lacking in cohesion, but I didn't see much activity and cohesion even in highly structured spheres like Mage.

[Arkandel]

@FiranSurvivor said:

One thing I do remember from my time there, is that there was no coded Underworld. Is it possible the lack of the Sin-Eater's main playground helped fuel the sphere's idleness?

Maybe, but I doubt it. For example Werewolf on Eldritch is pretty busy (at least from where I'm sitting) and the Shadow is always spoofed.

Basically I've never seen the grid as a significant factor in either RP generation or the lack thereof.

[Coin]

@Derp said:

@Coin

I only ever played Mage there, and that only in the last year, but I managed to hear a whole bunch of shit while I was there. "I wasn't supposed to be in charge, but..." is one of those things I heard more often than not. Seems that staff turnover was high. Which I guess a game with that many staffers should be unsurprising given who was at the top of the ladder.

But the spheres in general seemed pretty dead while I was there, and no amount of crunchy stuff was going to move them to give-a-fuck status. I'm not sure that this lies on any one person, so much as the atmosphere of the game itself. Geist might have been dead and lacking in cohesion, but I didn't see much activity and cohesion even in highly structured spheres like Mage.

But at least Mage had activity centered around those organizations, even if it wasn't the kind of activity some people liked or whatever.

@Arkandel said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

One thing I do remember from my time there, is that there was no coded Underworld. Is it possible the lack of the Sin-Eater's main playground helped fuel the sphere's idleness?

Maybe, but I doubt it. For example Werewolf on Eldritch is pretty busy (at least from where I'm sitting) and the Shadow is always spoofed.

Basically I've never seen the grid as a significant factor in either RP generation or the lack thereof.

The one thing I did do in my tenure as Geist Staff on The Reach was build a post-End-of-the-World-that-Wasn't Underworld. But I left soon after, and then Newark actually went in and changed things that were key to them because "heh, I just thought it looked better this way".

But for the last... year and some, there has been an Underworld, built and desced and accessible, on The Reach. Seven really large and unique rooms for it, actually.

[Arkandel]

@FiranSurvivor said:

Its also likely the people who play Sin Eaters are lazy shits and no amount of Courtly Intrigue will bring them out of their IC apartments.

Maybe. Sometimes it's just the absence of a unique niche - "what makes spheres work" is a pretty complex question and many factors play into it. Blaming it on 'lazy shits' is a pretty naive way of looking at it, no less so than dumping the blame on 'shitty staff'.

• You need active staff, because if no one's handling +jobs in a timely manner people usually walk. If they have a good reputation even better.
• You need involved players already since you can't RP on your own.
• At least some of those players should be a 'flagship' who can generate and carry others to RP.
• You need plot running so there's something to do.

Then you need luck. Sometimes another sphere will just get popular instead and cannibalize the rest since players flock to where activity already is.

[Derp]

@Coin

That's only half true.

The majority of the activity in the Arrows was me trying desperately to organize elections after Councilors and Provosts kept quitting left and right, and it was like pulling teeth every single time. I hated it, they hated it, and beyond that, you couldn't organize an Arrow event to save your soul.

The one and only big thing I saw going on Consilium-wise in that year was Dawson assassinating what's-her-name, Vanessa? That got people talking, IC and OOC. For like two weeks. And then it went back to dead as normal.

So while there was technically activity, it was minimal, and a great deal of it was more OOC than IC. The organizations were pretty meaningless to everyday gameplay, outside of people claiming to be a part of them because it gave people an idea of where their ideologies lied. Kind of like Democrat or Republican, only with magic. It could get conversations going on a small scale, but no more or less than any other personal philosophy. It was just more public what the Grand Consensus was.

[Misadventure]

Eh, no one seemed interested in talking about much of anything. The OOC BS was stacked pretty high too.

Perhaps my feelings Troy was a problem and an ultimate dead end for everything were out of proportion. The view I had from the inside as ad admin was pretty bleak as well. (I should note that I think that the view from inside seems worse than it really is, and it leads to a kind of burnout that no one but staff would experience, just by seeing so much of what is and isn't happening. Sorta like compassion fatigue.)

[Saulot]

@Derp said:

The majority of the activity in the Arrows was me trying desperately to organize elections after Councilors and Provosts kept quitting left and right, and it was like pulling teeth every single time. I hated it, they hated it, and beyond that, you couldn't organize an Arrow event to save your soul.

You did it to yourself, mate. I can tell you from the 2 or so years of playing in the Arrows on TR most of them couldn't care less about all of the political bullshit. This goes to what you did as Chance, the little tizzy between Patrick and Shani, the thing about whatsherface the new Obrimos being shunted from Status 2 to 1, or the general fuckery of the sphere when Dash v. Allegory was going on. You wasted your time.

[FiranSurvivor]

@Saulot said:

You wasted your time.

Lets be honest. I think this can be the tag line for 99% of MUSH involvements.

[Sunny]

We had a great sin eater in my playgroup, but he didn't really do much out of Three Oaks once we had things going on there; all of his initial attempts fell flat and he gave up, I think.

[Arkandel]

@Sunny But was that the result of him playing a Sin-Eater?

[Olsson]

@Derp said:

The majority of the activity in the Arrows was me trying desperately to organize elections after Councilors and Provosts kept quitting left and right, and it was like pulling teeth every single time. I hated it, they hated it, and beyond that, you couldn't organize an Arrow event to save your soul.

Hey I ran the Svartsol plot around that time, far as I know people enjoyed that and they were a fair number of scenes.

Unless that doesn't count?

[Sunny]

@Arkandel said:

@Sunny But was that the result of him playing a Sin-Eater?

The attempts he had to involve himself with Sin-Eater groups that sort of ended up fading off/puttering out? Yeah. People would sort of make noises about wanting to do things, and then just never followed through.

Edited to add: If someone does convert the Sin Eaters for 2.0, I'll include them in Dust. Of all of the 1.0 stuff, that's what I really am having sadfaces over it not looking like they're going to do. They're my favorite to play with / ST for. Well, Vampire maybe to ST for. Either which way though.

[Derp]

@Olsson

Did that really get that much attention, though? Like, I know that there was a big initial push, but I don't even remember there being a resolution for it.