Cyberrun
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...what sort of website would someone want PenDes to have? Again, maybe think this through a bit.
"Why doesn't Shang have a wiki?"
^ Consider this question with even a modicum of seriousness and you'll rapidly become very glad they don't. (I think players started one on their own, but I have no idea what was up with that. Not my circus, not my monkeys.) -
@surreality said in Cyberrun:
what sort of website would someone want PenDes to have?
When I wrote this I was directly alluding to the fact that an online gaming site wouldn't want to advertise 'online simulated pedophilia' because then it would fall onto the radar of watchdog groups and investigators. Of course they wouldn't have a website. Best keep the haven of pedophilia RP a hush hush underground club.
If only these pedophiles were also slut shamers, right? They'd be in trouble, then.
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@Ghost I am not entirely sure if you have a reasonable notion of how you're coming across in this thread. While you showed your work on the leaps of logic in this case, there are plenty more, along with some spectacularly gross conflations and insinuations. The subject matter is awful enough. It doesn't need your 'help' for others to become aware that it is awful.
Things like 'it requires more staff to manage and monitor, and additional hosting costs' are seemingly not on the radar here. Shang hosts intermittent donation drives to keep the lights of the MUX on alone. (I don't even want to consider what would happen if they were also hosting a wiki for thousands of players with a rapid turnover, or what content would be on it.)
Sometimes it's the simple shit.
Regardless, per Pandora, the game in question does this.
I wouldn't look to you as the voice on this issue for multiple reasons, because the gonzo journalism 'sling out worst case scenarios, absurd conflations, insinuations that no one who isn't screaming the same song you are at the same volume isn't aware of the issues (or supports this stuff happening), and scare tactics' approach is hitting the poor taste mark unto itself.
(Rinel, RDC, Ganymede, y'all have made very reasoned and thoughtful contributions here and thank you for doing so in the face of this.)
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@Tinuviel That's charmingly naive.
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@surreality said in Cyberrun:
@Tinuviel That's charmingly naive.
Is it naive, or jaded? It's hard to tell.
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@Tinuviel I can browse a WoD wiki and turn up my nose plenty, sure.
Image links in Shang +finger remain to date the #1 source of 'I will never unsee that' in my life.
"It is my own stupid fault for clicking the link," I can say, because I know it's an image of a thing. A random page of nightmare fuel loading up after clicking a name? No thanks.
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@surreality said in Cyberrun:
what sort of website would someone want PenDes to have?
When I wrote this I was directly alluding to the fact that an online gaming site wouldn't want to advertise 'online simulated pedophilia' because then it would fall onto the radar of watchdog groups and investigators. Of course they wouldn't have a website. Best keep the haven of pedophilia RP a hush hush underground club.
If only these pedophiles were also slut shamers, right? They'd be in trouble, then.
Hahaha...no.
First of all, there is a whole lot of 'online simulated child molestation/sex/rape' available on the internet, indexed and accessible to anyone who wants it. Why? Because it's not illegal in most countries. Because no actual children are harmed. Because much like the murder of simulated people, nobody in law gives a fuck about the molestation of simulated children. Because those children don't exist, and weirdly enough, in crimes that actually matters.
Because there are far, far more actual kids getting actually raped and trafficked than child welfare or law enforcement can even close to keep up with, and the last thing they need is some idiot pearlclutching chucklefucks cluttering up their already horrific and overloaded dockets trying to report consensual fake sex between adults because it's icky.
Please be aware that anyone who harasses law enforcement to try and get them to investigate text sex games is someone who is taking up time those investigators can be using to investigate actual crimes, hurting actual kids, involving actual child rapists. No one involved in child welfare is going to thank you for taking their time away from laying the groundwork necessary to get a kid away from their stepfather, or to shut down a child trafficking ring, in order to investigate forty year olds who like to call each other Daddy and Baby Girl while pretend-fucking.
People enjoy fantasizing about taboo shit. It does not, at all, mean they want to do taboo shit in real life - in fact, that's the appeal of the taboo, whatever that taboo is. Just...don't play the damned game. It looks like it's set up where you literally never have to think about the icky sex other people are pretending to have.
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@surreality said in Cyberrun:
A random page of nightmare fuel loading up after clicking a name?
To be fair, that's what I think of most WoD pages with a dozen weirdly-chosen images in a gallery. But I am mostly saying this for light comic relief given the... intensity of the subject matter.
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@Tinuviel Yeah, I get that. Unfortunately, I'm talking about... stuff that isn't funny and can be profoundly disturbing to stumble across visuals of (that often don't have the same impact in text). There's a lot of very violent rape imagery, amputation and snuff imagery, etc. Not censored, no limits on what can be shown (aside from no pictures of real world children of any kind from what I recall).
I would really, really never want to see a wiki of that, children or no children.
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@surreality Truth. I've no idea about the magic behind a wiki, but I can't see it being a simple thing to gate certain files off behind consent walls without... you know, going through and associating each image with a kink/theme/whatever.
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@Tinuviel Yeah. Mediawiki -- I can't speak for wikidot or other variants, and I doubt wikidot would be super keen on hosting something like that -- doesn't have much in the way of fine-grained privacy controls or filtering for content. It's just not part of the standard structure, and is counter to their concept, so they develop against the possibility for this in extensions/etc. There are extensions that try in a half-assed way, but they aren't the greatest and break often.
(Otherwise, just practically speaking, there would be a whole lot more people could potentially do with it that has nothing to do with these issues, which is sorta sad, because some would be super hobby-useful.)
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@surreality Not running for Senate. Not looking for a yelp review. Just not okay with online pedophilia havens. Priorities i guess.
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@surreality Not running for Senate. Not looking for a yelp review. Just not okay with online pedophilia havens. Priorities i guess.
Then go stop them.
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Priorities i guess.
This is exactly the sort of passive aggressive shade-throwing this thread does not need.
Just not okay with online pedophilia havens.
...and this. Again: you do not need to behave as you have been behaving to convince anyone that pedophilia is a problem.
Implying that anyone not behaving the way you are behaving is cheering on, or participating in, pedophilia online? Is laughable on its face.
Pyrefox nails it.
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@surreality Here is what I'm implying.
That many of this people have severe levels of 'not okay' with slut shaming, racism, homophobia, sexism, and creeping, but when it comes to actually using the word 'pedophile' to describe people on these games whose kink is simulated child fucking, I think too many people break out the 10 foot "dont rock the boat" pole.
Is there a bit of "WHOA, HEY NOW I...have a friend of a friend who...plays on that place. How about you just leave m-that friend alone!"? Yea, a little bit. Regardless, the priority balance between actually keeping pedophiles out of the community versus regimentally keeping an eye out for slut shamers is a bit askew, in my opinion.
Let's be adults. There's no grandiose high school pep rally election going on here, and not that there's any leadership here, I dont derive validity from my opinions based on whether or not people like you judge them a 9.5.
The difference between myself and some others is that I'm willing to call it 'simulated pedophilia', which I gather is an inconvenience to the people on this forum who partake in it, as is the suggestion to contact a watchdog service.
In the end, there's really no middle ground. There are people who do not approve of pedophilia (simulated or not), and people who are fine with providing sandbox space to partake in it. Clearly, my opinion is that it would be proper and positive for the community to do their part to keep pedophilia out of it, but if they choose not to I guess that's just one more consideration as to why the hobby isn't keeping new people for long.
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That many of this people have severe levels of 'not okay' with slut shaming, racism, homophobia, sexism, and creeping
Many folks are actually rather okay with it from a character. Because they know the difference between what a character does and what a player does.
Get it through your skull.
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@Tinuviel Oh, so if a player decides to perform a scene of simulated pedophilia on an adult-themed game, it's the character doing it?
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@surreality Here is what I'm implying.
That many of this people have severe levels of 'not okay' with slut shaming, racism, homophobia, sexism, and creeping,
Accurate!
but when it comes to actually using the word 'pedophile' to describe people on these games whose kink is simulated child fucking, I think too many people break out the 10 foot "dont rock the boat" pole.
Not remotely accurate.
This has been presented in a variety of ways already. Like the 'playing a racist/sexist character on a historical game must necessarily be doing so to engage in RL racism', the insistence that someone RPing this must be an RL pedophile is simply false.
Is this -- and any other permutation of 'they RP it on a game, thus they must really in RL' -- sometimes accurate? Probably. They are still not implicit.
Is there a bit of "*WHOA, HEY NOW I...have a friend of a friend who...plays on that place. How about you just leave m-
Yeah, again, more 'asking for a friend' shade being thrown directly at everyone. I don't play on either of these games, have never played on either of these games, and have no interest in doing so.
that friend alone!*"?
I don't actually know anyone who does, either.
Yea, a little bit.
...a little bit?
Regardless, the priority balance between actually keeping pedophiles out of the community versus regimentally keeping an eye out for slut shamers is a bit askew, in my opinion.
The only person who has been railing about slut shaming in this thread is you.
Now, I ignore plenty of threads around these parts, but it hasn't been a recent topic of conversation in any that I follow for some time, either.
Let's be adults.
Some people in this thread are behaving like adults. You have consistently not been one of them. Please knock it off.
There's no grandiose high school pep rally election going on here,
This has nothing to do with anything.
and not that there's any leadership here,
The mods here actually do pay attention to issues on the board. I don't agree with all of their calls over the ages, but having seen them work to protect the board directly, I'm not going to throw shade at them, either. I see no reason for you to be doing it, either. This is from out of nowhere, so far as I can tell.
I dont derive validity from my opinions based on whether or not people like you judge them a 9.5.
You shouldn't. Also, what's a 'people like [me]?' Please elaborate.
The difference between myself and some others is that I'm willing to call it 'simulated pedophilia', which I gather is an inconvenience to the people on this forum who partake in it, as is the suggestion to contact a watchdog service.
I do not know a single person on this forum who partakes in it. Not one.
Have I seen people do it on Shang, years ago, when it was permitted? Yep. Are any of them on the forum? Not that I know of. Am I still in touch with a single one of them? Nope. Did I ever partake in it with them? Nope. Did I distance myself from them when I found out? Yep. Did any of them express a view other than disgust and horror over the notion of someone doing any of these things in real life with an actual child? Nope.
In the end, there's really no middle ground. There are people who do not approve of pedophilia (simulated or not), and people who are fine with providing sandbox space to partake in it.
So the person prosecuting a pedophile, who doesn't share your views precisely, is a supporter of pedophilia. The survivor of a pedophile online who does not share your views precisely is a supporter of pedophilia.
This is what you're saying. It is a repugnant claim.
Clearly, my opinion is that it would be proper and positive for the community to do their part to keep pedophilia out of it,
Considering the volume of games that do not permit it, this is the standard attitude. It is not revolutionary or novel. It is not rare. It's not uncommon. It is already the standard default. It is so much the standard default that it is big news -- see this thread as evidence -- when a game permits it at all.
but if they choose not to
See above. The vast majority of games prohibit this content.
I guess that's just one more consideration as to why the hobby isn't keeping new people for long.
...so this doesn't hold water and is another rallying cry/strawman/conflation of things that don't conflate.
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@Tinuviel Oh, so if a player decides to perform a scene of simulated pedophilia on an adult-themed game, it's the character doing it?
Unless and until a player is seeking out fellow players that are actually children, it's not real.
Do I think this particular expression of the kink is horrid? Absolutely.
Would I rather such places not be advertised here? Yes.
Is it entirely possible that some folks that engage in this activity are paedophiles? Sure.But what do you think the outcome is, honestly? We're not the MU Police. You're not some guardian angel. You want to report this to a watchdog service? Do so. I support that effort. But going on and on and on about it just makes you look like a child.
What consenting adult players do with other consenting adult players in an adult-only environment is their business, no matter how depraved we might think it. Unless someone is actually being harmed by this, there's no reason for anyone to care.