The Wheel of Time

[Vixanic]

I interpreted that slightly differently!

***NSFW content***

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@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:

For example it was revealed that Rand channeled Saidin in order to push that trolloc off the bridge in the Ways.
However since it wasn't Egwene who channeled then that have should have tipped Moiraine off since, in the books, it'd have come out of nowhere - clearly a male's weaves. So it seems channeling is the same, i.e. every channeler can feel everyone's weaves regardless of gender.

I got the impression that both of them channeled; Egwene even said "I didn't mean to channel", suggesting that she did do something, and that Rand's channeling went unseen and the effect of it was assumed to be from Egwene's weaves.

[WildBaboons]

@vixanic all that.

And at least one thing staying true to the books is the arrogance of the Aes Sedai. Will be interesting to see how they handle the discovery of wise ones and windfinder's, etc

[Arkandel]

***Minor spoiler***

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Will there basically be one Borderland Kingdom? They might just merge them all into Shienar and call it a day.

One thing I don't yet trust the series to do yet is showcase politics and the Great Game. So far they haven't been able to create much of a three-dimensional world at all; compare it to Westeros in the first season and this is very, very shallow. Even the dynamics between the Ajahs are underwhelming up to now.

[Rucket]

@arkandel
***=NSFW content***

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No, I'm fairly certain they aren't merging kingdoms, I watched a behind the scenes video and they were mapping out what cultures they were basing clothing off of for each kingdom/region and I didn't see anything missing.

As for politics -- well, I bet more White Tower shit will be seen in Season 2 when Egwene and Nynaeve go become initiates in the tower and meet up with Elayne. My impression when watching the show is that they are trying to balance world building and introducing characters/concepts without throwing too many things at non-book readers all at once.

[Coin]

@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:

***Minor spoiler***

click to show

Will there basically be one Borderland Kingdom? They might just merge them all into Shienar and call it a day.

One thing I don't yet trust the series to do yet is showcase politics and the Great Game. So far they haven't been able to create much of a three-dimensional world at all; compare it to Westeros in the first season and this is very, very shallow. Even the dynamics between the Ajahs are underwhelming up to now.

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In Game of Thrones, the political maneuvering was the plot. In this show, there is a quest-type plot that is taking much more center stage, which is to be expected.

[Wizz]

@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:

One thing I don't yet trust the series to do yet is showcase politics and the Great Game. So far they haven't been able to create much of a three-dimensional world at all; compare it to Westeros in the first season and this is very, very shallow. Even the dynamics between the Ajahs are underwhelming up to now.

I don't mean this as a personal attack but like, it really doesn't surprise me that the first season plot has been so stitched together and rushed because I imagine the fan pressure to get to the popular parts of the setting and plot in the series after so many years in production limbo must be just like overwhelmingly insane.

Eye of the World is a pretty standard fantasy plot in a lot of ways and the reason the elements you want feel thin is they're just not that present until the end. I personally kind of don't like that they're rushing through it, because the first three books are my favorite, but I understand I'm probably among the minority there.

[Rucket]

@wizz said in The Wheel of Time:

Eye of the World is a pretty standard fantasy plot in a lot of ways and the reason the elements you want feel thin is they're just not that present until the end.

I agree with this. A lot of the more interesting aspects of the series don't really start coming into play until Books 2, 3 and 4 depending on what characters you are looking at.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@wizz said in The Wheel of Time:

I don't mean this as a personal attack but like, it really doesn't surprise me that the first season plot has been so stitched together and rushed because I imagine the fan pressure to get to the popular parts of the setting and plot in the series after so many years in production limbo must be just like overwhelmingly insane.

I really hope they get 10 episodes next year, or at least 90-minute finales and premiers. I've had my issues with this season but they've been primarily clunky pacing and hand-waved/rushed characterization, and all of that's solved by another episode or two.

[Arkandel]

@wizz said in The Wheel of Time:

@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:

One thing I don't yet trust the series to do yet is showcase politics and the Great Game. So far they haven't been able to create much of a three-dimensional world at all; compare it to Westeros in the first season and this is very, very shallow. Even the dynamics between the Ajahs are underwhelming up to now.

I don't mean this as a personal attack but like, it really doesn't surprise me that the first season plot has been so stitched together and rushed because I imagine the fan pressure to get to the popular parts of the setting and plot in the series after so many years in production limbo must be just like overwhelmingly insane.

Sure, but why would this sound like a personal attack?

[Wizz]

@arkandel

Just that you were expressing a sentiment that was similar to some degree, that the stuff you were looking for specifically was thin on the ground is the kind of thing I imagine a lot of fans have been saying with a lot more volume and a lot less politeness.

[Rucket]

Whatever else, this show's soundtrack spits some fire:

https://youtu.be/PpcO6xeJlj4

[Rucket]

Well, I am kind of sitting here having to process exactly how I feel about this finale.

Like on one hand, I really get some of these changes and have to look at the fact that Mat's actor not showing up for filming for Ep 7 and Ep 8 likely caused a great deal of problems storywise and rewrites had to happen.

On the other hand though, I'm not exactly sure why some of the decisions were made?

Anyway two lists --

***Stuff I like/Stuff I get***

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• Ishamael. So dude clearly set a trap at the Eye of the World, I think many people called this, and it's very fitting to the character. The actor playing him did pretty good I think, at least I liked the overall vibe I was getting from him.
• The Horn of Valere being in Fal Dara. I mean, yeah not having it at the Eye makes sense to me. The overall plot of it being 'found' and then 'stolen' are here, and now we have a new reason to go after Fain for the dagger (Loial being stabbed, and I assume this was a stand-in because of a lack of Mat).
• Ishamael shielding Moiraine (or possibly stilling, but it wasn't as dramatic as Logain being gentled, so assuming that it's a tied off shield). Great way to fuck with an Aes Sedai and show how strong the Forsaken are vs. today's channelers. Also Moiraine's channeling abilities aren't as big of a deal plot-wise after Eye of the World... and gives Rand something to strive for to help her undo that shield.
• Rand running off. I mean, dick move, but if he's off to Tear, then my assumptions that Books 2 and 3 are largely going to be merged in Season 2 makes sense.
• I get killing off Agelmar. Not a very important character in the grand scheme and who knows what the actor's availability will be for the Last Battle, lol.
• Min peacing the fuck out of Fal Dara, lol. That was hilarious.
• Fain & the Fades showing up and taking over. Good times.
• The Aes Sedai uniforms at the start. Lews Therin's looked dope. I also liked how Ishamael was dressed too. Very dapper evil gentleman.

***Stuff that boggles me***

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• Ok, I get making the ladies burn out when faced with the amount of power that Egwene and Nynaeve can bring to bear, but why is it necessary to have Nynaeve burn out and then Egwene... heal her? Was Nynaeve dead? If so, that's some bullshit because Rand couldn't even bring someone back to life with fucking Callendor in his hands and not only is Rand more powerful, but Callendor is one of the most powerful sa'angreal in existence. If she isn't dead, did Egwene heal someone burned out from the source? I don't like that either. Healing shit is Nynaeve's realm, it's where she shines, giving something like that to Egwene kinda feels like it's taking away from Nynaeve.
• The Rand dream. Man, that was Egwene's test to become Accepted in the White Tower and we turn it into a way for Ishamael to tease Rand? I feel like there's different stuff that could have been done. Fuck, having a sequence of flashes where Ishamael shows Rand human suffering through the ages while taunting "I win again, Lews Therin" could have been great.
• Fucking why not have Ishamael and Lews Therin talking in the beginning? Give some context as to who Ishamael IS. He's the most interesting of the Forsaken, goddamn it.
• Why the hell did that Aes Sedai call Lews Therin 'the dragon reborn'? He's not, he's The Dragon. Yes, the concept of the champion of the light is probably across many ages but Lews Therin is the man that was called 'Dragon'. Maybe a minor nitpick, but it took away from a scene that I thought was kind of cool, I just wish was different. A discussion of philosophy between Ishamael and Lews Therin could have really been great.

[Derp]

@rucket said in The Wheel of Time:

Why the hell did that Aes Sedai call Lews Therin 'the dragon reborn'? He's not, he's The Dragon.

No, he's the Dragon Reborn. Always has been. Part of the opening of the Eye of the World is Ishamael reminding him that they've already done this a million times and will do it a million times more, and Ish is already tired of having that conversation. It's a big cycle, just goes on and on and on.

[Rucket]

@derp said in The Wheel of Time:

@rucket said in The Wheel of Time:

Why the hell did that Aes Sedai call Lews Therin 'the dragon reborn'? He's not, he's The Dragon.

No, he's the Dragon Reborn. Always has been. Part of the opening of the Eye of the World is Ishamael reminding him that they've already done this a million times and will do it a million times more, and Ish is already tired of having that conversation. It's a big cycle, just goes on and on and on.

A lot of that was theorizing by Ishamael, and even if it is true the people of his age gave him the 3rd name of "Telamon" which means "The Dragon" They didn't give him "Telamonsyndai" which is "The Dragon Reborn".

Also an excerpt from the books:

"And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World.

And him they named Dragon."

— From Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora, The Breaking of the World. Author unknown, the Fourth Age

[Wizz]

Yeah, this finale was...something. Can't say I agree with or understand some of the choices, but the production value was high and there were some great character moments.

***General thoughts***

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One thing I think they really struggled with was giving everyone something to do. I was sure they'd all follow Rand to the Eye, so it was a little baffling when they all decided to stay and kick dirt clods for most of the episode instead? Like, having them all there at the Eye is just the better plot choice. I get that Mat's actor swap already made that screwy, but....eh.

I did really enjoy that they explicitly canonized Nynaeve and Egwene as ta'veren, that was cool and makes sense, and like I mentioned I had always personally felt like they were supposed to be.

Moiraine realizing that the conflict at the Eye was not the Last Battle is...fuckin bizarre? You could forgive the people in Fal Dara for thinking it was, but like she knew that already??? She knows the Karaethon Cycle? And how basically none of it has been crossed off?? Just...buh?

Also, I was really confused by what exactly happened in the fight with Ishamael. Moiraine out of the BLUE has a male sa'angreal? What? And Rand doesn't channel through it, he channels into it, and it creates a weave of some sort? WHAT??

I am interested to see where the series goes. They've changed a lot already and I think it will be a very different beast from the books by the end.

[Wizz]

Also, I know it's linked somewhere here on the boards years and years ago, but just as an early X-mas present for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's the hilarious faux-pilot produced by and starring Billy Zane.

Oh, what we could have had!!

[Arkandel]

The season finale was garbage.

What a steaming pile of shit. It boggles my mind. What the actual hell.

[WildBaboons]

Is this what sports fans feel like watching their teams play when they just don't perform like they could?

Even if you the seasons are terrible I am still going to watch them. I'm invested in the material and want to support it. I'll just be angry about it.

Really really hoping season 2 gets more money/time so maybe some of the issues can be fixed but I've a feeling it will just dig in more.

[Derp]

Well, I enjoyed it for what it is, through the whole ride.

[Wizz]

Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to say it was bad-awful garbage or whatever, it was a fun watch! It just was an incredibly loose interpretation and adaptation of the end of this book that sorta fumbled when RL complications came up and I maybe get the feeling like the writers either didn't understand the metaphysics of the setting or just aren't that invested in portraying them strictly in line with the text.