Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!
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Did anyone perchance watch the extremely unfortunate version that aired on Syfy?
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical -
@Cupcake said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:
Did anyone perchance watch the extremely unfortunate version that aired on Syfy?
I couldn't bring myself to watch it. Like half their productions it seems altered for budget rather than a design decision. Lion Men weren't lion men, just scraggly hair men; and not like extras from the Dothraka in Game of Thrones, like clean cut neighbors of the producer with extra hair product in their hair to look 'scraggly'. The Hawkmen didn't have wings? A fair number of British series make these mixes in production but it seems to work; I enjoyed the 8 part Sinbad series, I enjoyed Merlin despite drastic story deviance. SyFy just seems to flop half the time and this series just looked like a flop.
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Wanted to say that and transition into ...
I'm going to slowly give each major region a development treatment; write some in depth portions for history and culture as relevant to the game. But I do have a question for anyone reading.
Changing of the names to give it a true cultural feel. That is, the Tree Men works in the comics, but seems to be short from a cultural standpoint. I think each culture or peoples deserve this cosmetic attention. Instead of Ape Men or Shark Men, they wouldn't use that reference. it would tie into origins, how they came to the planet, etc.
From my standpoint, the humans still use those names for easy reference, highlighting cultural difference. They still call 'wingedracepeople' the Hawkmen, whether they like it or not.
Just pitching it for pros or cons. Then I'll get to working on cultures and come back with questions or seek criticisms once those are done for people to read over.
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No pros or cons I have proceeded to plant the wheat. I've spent a couple hours giving a slight overview to Arboria, Magnetic Mountains (Ming's area), and the area that was Flash's Kingdom in the comics but is affectionately called New Angeles. Keeping some elements but developing more depth to them.
This leads to thoughts on system. Not ready to fully decide on one so much as considering things being stated for balance later. My pref for a sci fi setting is going to lean towers Open D6; versatile, has worked for decades in Star Wars games. The attribute+skill=dice pool is well known enough that most understand the basics. Though totaling dice vs standard target number instead of each die rolling against a target seems better and makes standard tasks easier to succeed at as one raises the skills. It's simple enough that most potential players, unfamiliar with the system, could get going in their own plots fairy easily.
Edit: Collaborators still welcome. At this stage, creative writers interested in developing theme. Not cutting and pasting from other sites, but developing based on inspiration from classic Flash into something wholly breathing and functioning from our own modern perspective. Ideally, a group of individuals that could divide up the content by area and possible be faction heads down the road.
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Moving forward, Open D6 Space as the underlying system.
Some modifications to better suit theme.
Metaphysics (space magic/super science/the force) being primitive magic instead, innate to some of the more primitive races. There were hints of underlying magic (Queen Aura and the Blue Clad Magic Men, etc), this will give that to a few of the various races. Innate to race.
Cybernetics wasn't really a thing, this will be replaced with Super Science gadgetry of some sort. The closest example some might be familiar with is the mind control ring Ming uses in the 80s movie (Flash, Ahhhahhhh! - Brain Blessed screams "Dive!!!!").
I know many Star Wars games utilized a coded economy for small arms, weapons and such, but this takes a lot more maintenance with a fully functioning economy to control it and to this day still seems to get out of control. I prefer the resources dice pool, to see if someone has or doesn't have a certain weapon/armor at a given time. Half the fun is being without a weapon and surviving on instinct and athleticism alone.
With the super science gadgetry, players can pay for better permanent things. While a certain race might have Flight as an innate ability (but calculated in point costs), a human might get jump boots to go Peter Quill on everyone. Sure sometimes it might get confiscated, but he always finds them again and is using them at some point. That's the aim of changing cybernetics into gadgetry, it represents that and gives a point cost to a permanent affect for a given character.
Just something to chew on, criticism is welcome as always. Going to look at throwing a few space coins at some shell to start some code I think. Work slowly side by side, a few things to wiki and theme development, a few things to code
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So, I'm sitting here doing my now regular weekend thing, adding theme content to the current wiki to develop the regions of Mongo and give the culture a little more life (beyond mustache and goatee-always bad guys and pretty people mostly the good guys).
The whole planet makes it easy to get around, visit other regions, consistent with the majority of the comic strips, most of the serials and movies even.
But then my mind wanders. The black hole concept from /the/ movie, the one most people are familiar with and possible have seen, was a little fetched, but as a wormhole to another part of space has been used sometimes and plausible sci-fi.
That aside, my fingers and the internet reading and research has fallen on the main asteroid belt of our solar system. While I'm mostly talking to myself, throwing my voice to the void, I figure someone may listen and have advice or become interested along the way. So ...
What if instead of a planet, the larger objects of the asteroid belt where various 'kingdoms' of Mongo, with Ming sitting on Ceres or possibly one slightly larger such object?
Space travel keeps enough distance from earth, thus focusing the area of play amongst the large orbital like kingdoms in the belt, but opens up for space rockets/ships. Overall from our perspective, the planetoids and bodies are infinitesimally small (the total mass of the objects in the belt - 5% of the moon's mass), but looking at surface area, Ceres is roughly 1/3 the land mass of China. Could make standard time travels, 1-2 days between orbital bodies and such, or jumps between bodies of a day or two to string out more distance between big bodies.
Thoughts, not quite pros/cons but a list:
One Planet: easier to get around, can have larger scale conflict and battles between groups, but is it any different than picking a random planet, and calling it a space game without much space involved other than sci-fi stuff like mad science, ray guns, etc.
Asteroid Belt: Controlled areas of play, rocket ships are a big part of the picture, harder for the localized combat such as Tree Men vs Ape Men (harder but manageable, some atomic/space guild/sect helped terraform the larger bodies, both species live on one large object).
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Note that this is absolutely not designed to be a damper on your enthusiasm, but if you are assigning values to the various cultures they didn't have in the source material and moving them off Mongo to a unique setting of asteroids (with internal or external atmospheres and biospheres), why are you doing Flash Gordon? And are you still doing it?
At what point do you wander into 'unique theme' territory?
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@Collective said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:
Note that this is absolutely not designed to be a damper on your enthusiasm, but if you are assigning values to the various cultures they didn't have in the source material and moving them off Mongo to a unique setting of asteroids (with internal or external atmospheres and biospheres), why are you doing Flash Gordon? And are you still doing it?
At what point do you wander into 'unique theme' territory?
No damper at all, I'm not gung ho, full speed. It is something I think would be fun. Criticism is quite welcome, I would know early if I was simply wasting my time. And again, I'd prefer a collaborative effort to develop together, but limited return. One vote of interest in helping. I'm slowly rolling along with solo interest and no light at the end of the tunnel, I don't even know if I'm in the tunnel.
I think before its looked at as 'unique theme', the core that is Flash Gordon, and what makes it Flash, is bares looking at.
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Rocket ships, ray guns, modern industrial/atomic age progressive technology (like steampunk has Victorian rocket ships that go to the moon, Jules Verne, but 30s-50s era).
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Tyrant overlord, highly feudal L&L society.
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Exotic locations, peoples, beasts; a bend on anthro-species (lion men, hawk men, shark men, lizard men, so on, etc.), typical fantasy like beasts (dragons, land worms, harpy bats, mostly dinosaur and dragon like stuff), rigid environs that technology allows survival (aqua lung to give humans ability to breath water, invisible barrier suits to live in the snow, men wearing asbestos suits to live in fire or near lava).
Are individual planets unique to Flash Gordon? No. Aside from the 1980 Movie, which exists within a black hole/pocket dimension, and they fly through open weird space to get to the various planets, many more modern versions utilize the wormhole theory to place it in another solar system or galaxy with multiple planets. The common similarity is Ming is overlord of feudal states, the humans help them unite and rebel.
Have I changed the races from the most common in the comics and movies? No. Giving them culture is just not done so much. A Shark Man or Gorilla Man is usually the enemy because they look like hulks, have big scary teeth and no one wants to fight that in hand to hand combat. I have started giving them cultural names, but humans still call them Hawk Men or Lion Men because, human and lazy.
Does Mongo come near earth? Yes, the original series and many have had it as a rogue planet that drifts into our Solar System. Earlier versions never got into the why of this, as most readers wanted the weekly action serial of adventure and didn't think too long and hard as to why? Later versions through in typical alien invasion stuff, need earth's resources, sometimes Mongo is too dead and he wants the entire planet.
Is any of this right, or does it drift too far from 'core' Flash? I do not honestly know, those who enjoy Flash all have a different preference, and know different versions. Should I decide alone what is right and wrong, probably not. It bares open discussion certainly, but until I have open discussion, I'm limited to occasional feedback in this thread. Which is very much welcome.
Edit: Why am I doing it? I enjoy space action adventure, sci-fi, fantasy, and even some L&L politics. Flash has all of this and people are familiar enough to understand its lots of crazy action, where you fire ray guns or lasers, escape from big monsters, have hectic chases on weird things like snowbirds or air sleds or even rocket ships maybe.
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Fair enough!
I like the 'parallel dimension'/wormhole stuff myself. Or take a page from Marvel (or, God(s) help us, Gor) and have Mongo as a rouge planet that settles into a 'counter-earth' orbit.
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@Collective said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:
Fair enough!
I like the 'parallel dimension'/wormhole stuff myself. Or take a page from Marvel (or, God(s) help us, Gor) and have Mongo as a rouge planet that settles into a 'counter-earth' orbit.
On the wormhole/parallel dimension spectrum, are you still thinking one planet will suffice or multiple planets?
Are space ships and space travel an appeal to potential players? Only asking as that's my line of reasoning for objects in the asteroid belt (that and at some points, the planet Mongo/Ming is stopped just beyond that region in the comics). Even in the Movie, Princess Aura has a rocket ship when she takes Flash from Ming's City to Arboria. Are they just background or would players want space travel and potential ship to ship conflict?
Counter Earth Orbit: Very interesting but this changes a lot of dynamics, solely on the idea that the travel distance between the rogue planet and earth isn't that far; a ship launches counter to earths revolution around the sun, wouldn't take more than 6 months to hit Mongo and vice verse (real math/science not included). We'd either need to make ships travel faster so it takes less time, or ponder more the level of interaction between Mongo and Earth. I get that Earth is pretty important in Defenders of the Earth, and it is utilized a little in middle runs (late 40s-50s). Sort of makes it a Battlefront: Earth's Orbit, more combat oriented war style game with more necessary code with more involved staff to keep tabs on the battlefront and battles. Doesn't change what little I've scratched at the surface of some theme of a solitary planet, just needs more consideration than keeping distance between Earth and Mongo and focusing emphasis on play on Mongo.
I like single planet for the very feudal feel of it, but I like multiple locations and it can have a feudal feel (Dune, Star Wars, you name it). I am good with wormhole/pocket dimension, gives it more sci-fi/sci-fantasy cross over, I like the potential of asteroid belt because lends to more sci-fi than fantasy. The asteroid belt gives a little more credit to things like random pirate planet showing up or introduction of another 'world' as play continues.
Edit: I meant to be brief, but still a few paragraphs there, sorry about wordy responses.
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@AlexRaymond
Don't do multiple planets. -
@Bobotron said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:
@AlexRaymond
Don't do multiple planets.This works, I haven't done anything by way of writing ideas down or theme towards multiple planets or even the celestial bodies/dwarf planets asteroid belt thing (though this thought does linger in my mind).
I'm still chewing on @Collective's counter earth orbit idea. I keep pondering pros/cons and how it fits to sci-fi mu*.
My main con for this is proximity to earth, which lends itself more to small group campaign style play. IE; stop the launch of the invasion force, stop the meteor, the race to earth cause Ming sent assassins. It has a lot of fun potential, but seems bent towards smaller group because if you did that stuff with a mu* of 15 or more players, the half that didn't get to participate would be up in arms about not getting plot.
However, its sitting more in my mind for the pros. This close makes it an eminent danger more than anything further out (Mars/asteroid belt, any other planet in the system) in the modern mind. Easier to have new characters that show up. With a planet that is further out, rockets landing on Mongo seems less likely a regular occurrence. Makes it easy to have both sides utilizing near orbit to planetary orbit ships for measures/counter measures which could include allowing the new group to be 'shot' down and surviving as an introduction to play occasionally. Could be more atmospheric level fighting with 'space ships' without going into space travel itself. And would still keep focus on the feudal state on the planet itself as the majority of focus I think.
And anything considered so far is retained; wormhole or asteroid belt would take reworking some of the ideas.
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That stuff works. No MU* should be expected, and no MU* can ever support, having EVERY PLAYER involved in EVERY PLOT.
We had an entire world grid mapped at various Transformers and Megaman MU*s, and different things worked for different characters. People find out about Ming's invasion via spies. The people on the ground and closest to the launch sites get to go all Rogue One on it; the assassins? Intelligency types get to shine.
Build your plots to cater around, not just 'HERE'S A PLOT EVERYONE HAVE AT IT'. It's unrealistic and, in honesty, at least to me, not fun. If I'm a fighty guy, I'm not going to go be the head of an intelligence gathering or building something plot. If I have no raygun skills, I'm not going to grab a raygun and go to the front lines. You just have to have an understanding that, not all plots are made for all characters. I would HOPE that players on MU*s would think the same thing, but...
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Oh, I absolutely agree, the plot shouldn't just be an occasional 'fighty guys save the Earth again,' there should be elements for various groups. From sneaky spies getting the plans, to entrenched socialites converting the count of xenocity during the Ming feast to join the cause, everyone can have a part. Just with limited staff and letting it be a large focus of attacks against earth, if there are several groups of fighty folks or sneaky info types, the ones that miss out will feel that way. And from past experience, they will let staff know they don't feel it was fair.
However, a long time comic mu* player, I am thinking getting some other staff to help and allowing players to run save the day plot on the fly will go a long way to letting everyone generate or participate in higher scale plots. The successful comic places are usually more open to hero group utilizing non-played villain to damage half the major skyscraper in metro-city without staff approval. In fact, a plot generator might be a very useful tool. Typing in +plot/idea to randomly generate 'The LOCATION is jeopardized by an ATTACK OR PLOT believed to be initiated by VILLAINGROUP, but in fact a dispute between RANDOMGROUP and RANDOMGROUP has lead down this path' or the 'GOODNPC was kidnapped by VILLIANNPC for ransom to VILLAINGROUP.' Only spelling that out for the folks not familiar with the fun plot generators that I see more at comic places than anywhere else.
Actually, a plot system like this might be a big element to making it feel space opera for all players without having to be specifically included in staff metaplot. Plot system for planet side, players can generate a number of potential random plot per day/week and choose one, if they +plot/okay it, staff is notified automatically by the player who okay's it, so they can just follow up with player or watch logs and have the world act accordingly. Well thanks, @Bobotron I'm thinking plot system is a key element when hitting the globals for a Flash Gordon Mu*.
This leaves the big scale attacks to really be planned by staff to include multiple players and time zones even.
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You know, a complex plot system (more on the code end), would do a long way to furthering space opera genre in itself. A combination plot/request/job system, where players can 'check' out a plot which seals in the random factors (HEROGROUP, NPC, LOCATION, VILLAIN) by posting in a +job like fashion that notifies staff, and both play runner and staff can just add notes to the system so only staff and that player can see it.
Runner could submit updates to the job/system, staff could generate news or rumors for how the world interacts even.
And on the side, players can create the potential story plots, '+plotstory/submit SPHERE=An ATTACK by VILLAIN goes astray, civilians of LOCATION need assistance', and staff decides, then okays and it becomes one of the many random plots that could be generated. Makes the large scale war more sustainable and inclusive of player contributions I think. I'm liking this more and more. Its shifting from retro space sci fi to really space opera in feel to me.
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Considering server/shell options, just some VPN/VPS at about $5/month as I don't want to pay more for something that could never take off. For the purpose of starting to generate some of that code for the plot system.
I'm looking at a potential plot runner uses a command (+plot/gen) to get several recommendations. It uses the group the enactor (plot runner) is affiliated with to generate potential allies or enemies, as well as their physical location. Thus a Ming loyalist in Frigia might get giants as allies, and depending on the plot, the location for attacking (Queen's city) or defending (outpost trade center) something. That's a simple hook, could be exchanging info, making a contact, sabotaging some production, anything, just the two main factors (location and friends/enemies) are determined by who is generating a potential plot from the random generator. A rebel against Ming would have a few different banks generated.
Thus, on the data object(s), we could generate lists from attributes and the data on that attribute. So location/treecity object=rebel|sublocations|more|data might pull for a ming loyalist making at attack (stealing data, kidnapping someone for info, rescuing a loyalist, whatever), or a rebel in tree city stopping some attack or plan of malicious intent by some group of ming loyalists (ape men, metal men, whatever).
People could submit ideas (ENEMEYGROUP is infiltrating LOCATION, seek CONTACT at SUBLOCATION for information that leads to SUBLOCATION, avoid ENEMYNPC who is surveilling), staff could approve. Once in there, potential plot runners could generate up to three plots, and choose one to run. This would lock up some locations (to avoid duplicate activity), send staff notice of the plot, turn it into a job where comments and even subplots can be added to it. This would handle 'requests' for resources from players, and if something is blown up along the way, staff have a turnaround time to make changes to grids and groups. All NPCs would be minor under any named top line NPCs (Ming, the Kings/Queens/Leaders of an area), THey could Submit Count Von Stryker for the NPCS bank, with details such as ming loyalist, and likely cities and places they might be found out with some info. It could keep a running tally in the dataobject of what happens with him, so they have a running story the more they are used. And all through plot runners using +plot and staff interacting to +jobs and +job time requirements to provide feedback, ideas, bbposts and changed.
A step beyond requiring +requests, but a lot of work being handled in the idea generation and collaboration aspect of it by using the plot generator in conjunction with plot runner info on the charbit they're using to generate and run the plot.
I think I am at the point of locking down space and getting started on that. I'll return to focus on theme while hunting for what is needed. Just bouncing it out there per usual.
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@AlexRaymond Just a thought, free hosting is available, if you want to test the waters before spending any money on your project. Log on to the RhostMUSH-DEV site (erebor.localecho.net 4201) and talk to Jarin. It's completely free, very reliable, and Jarin/Jeff has been a pleasure to deal with.
