POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check

[Tempest]

Somebody hurry up and open a new hero MU, without all the dumb anime and "Buffy/Indiana Jones/Selene from Underworld had a comic book once" crap tacked on.

It's a hero MU, you barely even need code.

[TNP]

@tempest I keep telling you, come play on M:63. We have no anime or other non comic book characters.

[Thenomain]

@tempest said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

It's a hero MU, you barely even need code.

This may be a thread topic to tangent into another thread, but I've recently been wondering:

If people who play Superhero games are used to a stat system that is basically one person describing their own powers with possibly a system limiting how far they can go, or at the very least someone needing to approve it, why do people have such a hard time with Fate Core which has something very similar?

[Tempest]

@tnp Nothing against the game or anybody there, but the setting just isn't my cup of tea. I've done different eras before (CoFaB was 1920s and a lot of fun), but I just can't get into "superheroes in the 60s".

@thenomain said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

@tempest said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

It's a hero MU, you barely even need code.

This may be a thread topic to tangent into another thread, but I've recently been wondering:

If people who play Superhero games are used to a stat system that is basically one person describing their own powers with possibly a system limiting how far they can go, or at the very least someone needing to approve it, why do people have such a hard time with Fate Core which has something very similar?

Personally, I like the plain old just 'traits' system. You describe what your character can do in a couple systems for each power/skill/etc.

The difference is, generally speaking, a Superhero game is mostly FCs, so there's lots of references/etc out there.

FATE is people making their own characters AND there are actual dice mechanics tied to the traits they come up with, afaik? (The stunts and stuff.)

I also dislike OCs in general. Sue me.

People making their own character out of thin air and just vaguely describing their powers = Problem.

People playing pre-made characters that most everybody is familiar with, and just vaguely describing their powers = Not a problem.

Yes, there are plenty of crappy FC players, but I as a person know or can look up what that character can or can't do.

[fatefan]

@thenomain

If people who play Superhero games are used to a stat system that is basically one person describing their own powers with possibly a system limiting how far they can go, or at the very least someone needing to approve it, why do people have such a hard time with Fate Core which has something very similar?

I wish I had a good answer to this.

There's a part of me that feels like codifying potential for failure in a system (even if there are limits described in a 'traits' approach) is something that the supers MU* culture has come to resist strongly.

I guess there's a sense that it takes away agency from a long-held ability to consent to failing/losing at a given task?

[fatefan]

@tempest Would it be worth it to set up a game that had a more streamlined/less detailed approach to traits? I think this sort of question gets asked every now and then, but I'm always down for considering available options for FC-heavy games, especially if there's enough momentum/critical mass to get it realized.

[faraday]

@thenomain I haven't played much on superhero games, so take this response with a grain of salt... but I'm going to venture a guess:

In a superhero game you've got the comics/movies/etc. as a guide. Whatever words you use to describe Cap's shield, people have a common frame of reference for what it does. Less so with Fate stunts. I imagine it's more of an issue with original characters on superhero games.

Aren't superhero games mostly consent and/or PvE, so the traits are wholly secondary anyway? That's very different than trying to use Fate to regulate conflict.

Some people just like statless games. Others like stats and dice. Fate is kind of a werid middle ground that tries to do both and I think that makes both sides dislike it to some extent.

[Tempest]

@fatefan said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

@tempest Would it be worth it to set up a game that had a more streamlined/less detailed approach to traits? I think this sort of question gets asked every now and then, but I'm always down for considering available options for FC-heavy games, especially if there's enough momentum/critical mass to get it realized.

I'm not sure I understand your question, simply because...

As far as I know "streamlined traits" is pretty much the standard around Hero MUs these days. You just write a couple sentences describing the important parts of your character's abilities/etc. Most people seem to have pretty much accepted that as the norm. The recent DC game tried to use actual RPG mechanics, and that was a rare exception, afaik.

[fatefan]

@tempest Sorry, I guess I should have meant 'stressing/enforcing conciseness' in traits, since there are always those who enjoy writing encyclopedic backgrounds, power descriptions, etc.

You're right that this is calming down considerably from ~10 years ago.

[TNP]

@Tempest Fair. Though the year is 1964 so if it's the Hippie scene you dislike, it's not really begun yet in any force. Nor has the Vietnam War started yet per se (not counting all those advisors and shit over there). Honestly, had I chosen a year, 1963 is right in the middle of the interesting periods so it's barely noticeable in many ways. It's more what you bring to it (though isn't everything).

[Thenomain]

@tempest

Narrowing the places where Traits Systems works helps my understanding considerably. Thanks for the clarification.

(I will aside: I dislike book characters because there is no guarantee of continuity between players, not even with their understanding. One player may have read the Frotz Conundrum series while another didn't, so the base character changes. Alas.)

[BobGoblin]

I believe the reason people are accepting of it is because there's no alternatives.

If your choice is Play Superhero Game where you Describe on Stats vs. Don't play Superhero Game, you take the option that is available.

[Thenomain]

@bobgoblin said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

I believe the reason people are accepting of it is because there's no alternatives.

If your choice is Play Superhero Game where you Describe on Stats vs. Don't play Superhero Game, you take the option that is available.

My quandry is if people accept it, and even seem to like it ( @Tempest was asking specifically for it, even), then why don't as many people accept or even like Fate Core?

[Bobotron]

Has anyone else here read Marvel Heroic from Margaret Weiss Productions? There are things you could totally mine from tat, since it uses a variant of the Cortex System.

I printed one of the character stat sheets to a PDF, located here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ugmtzt9mra45ss/MHR - Cyclops.pdf?dl=0

You could adapt something like that, since it's already using descriptive traits. It does two things, I find, really well...

• Plot Points: These are gained from you, as a player, doing something to gimp yourself. Cyclops' example shuts down his optic blast (typically by his visor getting yanked), and he gains a PP. Or you can roll your distinctions (which are descriptives for yourself) as a d4 (this giving you less of a chance at success) for a PP. You could, theoretically, limit how many PP someone can have at a given time.

Otherwise, the system is pretty simple: make a die pool of trait/distinction/powers/etc. and roll, and the DM has what's called the Doom Pool, which is dice representing the enemies/environment.

Remove the 'making stuff on the fly to affect the scene' aspect of it, and you have a pretty solid way to mechanize the traits system

[fatefan]

@bobotron Assuming that someone might want to use this for a game that allows FCs and OCs (let's table the discussion of whether this is the most preferable approach), did they ever release rules/guidelines for making new characters?

I own the MHR book but haven't looked at it in a long time--and I remember it, like the Valiant RPG, seems geared toward using pre-built FC sheets (which might be a bonus as well, since I'm sure someone's hoarded & uploaded them somewhere). However, I don't think the core book offers much detail for making new characters or for building FCs that weren't given official sheets from MWP.

[Bobotron]

@fatefan
I'd have to dig; I got a copy of it because I'm a system whore and I like to have interesting systems to tinker with. I don't think they ever released a point-buy chargen, though ostensibly, since it uses a version of Cortex, you could use the point buy from Cortex Classic from things like BSG and Cortex Classic Core.

ETA: The only thing you'd have is, perhaps, a big power disparity between some characters and others. Cyclops has one power, for example. Colossus has three or four.

[Ghost]

@bobotron said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

Has anyone else here read Marvel Heroic from Margaret Weiss Productions? There are things you could totally mine from tat, since it uses a variant of the Cortex System.

I printed one of the character stat sheets to a PDF, located here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ugmtzt9mra45ss/MHR - Cyclops.pdf?dl=0

You could adapt something like that, since it's already using descriptive traits. It does two things, I find, really well...

• Plot Points: These are gained from you, as a player, doing something to gimp yourself. Cyclops' example shuts down his optic blast (typically by his visor getting yanked), and he gains a PP. Or you can roll your distinctions (which are descriptives for yourself) as a d4 (this giving you less of a chance at success) for a PP. You could, theoretically, limit how many PP someone can have at a given time.

Otherwise, the system is pretty simple: make a die pool of trait/distinction/powers/etc. and roll, and the DM has what's called the Doom Pool, which is dice representing the enemies/environment.

Remove the 'making stuff on the fly to affect the scene' aspect of it, and you have a pretty solid way to mechanize the traits system

I'm a fan of that system for herostuffs. I don't have the time/knowledge to code it, but if someone were to take on the effort, I'd join the project to help design it.

[Thenomain]

@fatefan

It could possibly follow the FC + Traits mentality: The character is already pretty much set; the goal is to codify it. Therefore, a chargen system isn't necessary.

[Bobotron]

@thenomain
This is essentially the advise that MHR core gives you (in addition to saying, the scenarios as written are meant for the heroes statted out in the books). There are tons of extra heroes, both Marvel and DC, statted out by fans on rpg.net as well.

[BobGoblin]

I have both played and ran a Marvel Heroic game at a table top.

Good experience, gives a very epic heroic feeling. Good system.

If you're looking to utilize it however I would suggest looking into the Cortex hacker's guide to modify the system a little bit to make it fit better the theme/feel you're going for.