I've pleasured myself on the Saga games quite a bit over the years, a lot of familiar names and sadly familiar attitudes. A couple of non-profound insights for you all to chew over.

#1) D20 games are not meant for PvP encounters and are not balanced around such. This isn't even a Saga specific thing. Prior to Covid I have been getting paid to DM games at local stores (it's honestly a really fun gig, I suggest people look into it!) and the reality of PvP comes up every once in awhile. You know what I've discovered? It doesn't fucking work. These games are meant to be STORY TOLD by a GM against NPC threats. All of these fucking MUSHes are trying to be some kind of E-Peen contest and then it falls on its face and people wonder why.

#2) What the fuck does history from 5 years ago about who did what with whom have to do with jack, or shit? This thread is about a new game, ran by a guy named Obie who is trying from what I can see to do something for the community. A lot of this thread had Zero to do with his advertisement and more to do with people rehashing old issues. If you have suggestions for the game runner, make them to him but holy shit that's a lot of long posts.

#3) If you can do better; I bet you can get access to the Database by asking for it.

#4) Warma is spot on. Holy shit you people are stuck in the past. I remember all those games you listed and yeah, all of them had faults that eventually drove them to close. Too bad they're not all ike Firan that stayed open forever...oh wait. Well maybe like Reno that stayed open forev... or maybe more like... ALL FUCKING GAMES SHUT DOWN OVER TIME. You can learn from the mistakes they made but you'll make new mistakes. Enjoy what you have and if you don't enjoy it, do it yourself or move on.

#5) Revisit #1. PvP games are never going to be 'balanced' because the winners cheese and the losers cry. So don't play them or make them if you can't handle those outcomes.

(Additional Note: I know Rodney Thompson, the guy who wrote Saga Edition for WotC, relatively well. I've told him stories about what people have done on the games and he uproariously laughed at the concept of competitive Saga Edition.)

I just wanted to have post #1000 in this thread.

I dub this a Trumpology

@Wizz
I'm sure the mu community st large could handle mature content without having issues.

Said no one ever

I'm actually in the process of transitioning all my work from MU base to Evennia base. As I'm going through this process the need for 'comparisons' of things becomes more clear. I would second the idea of a MUSH to Evennia type structure to both help and inform. A sort of 'Doing this in MUSH is like this: Doing it in Evennia is like this:' That I think would help people see the advantages / disadvantages and help bridge the gap. As a noob coder, a lot of times it's terminologies and syntax that are the issues. So yes, Rosetta Stone?

@magee101 This was referred to by many as the tacobus. Feel free to infer what you wish about it. Second that game was handed over to nutjob & spouse it was time to abandon ship. (anyone else ever notice the trainwrecks that always accompany nutjob&spouse games?)

What if we stopped operating under the presumption that MU's should have an infinite or undetermined life span and instead look at it and say 'we're going to have a year's worth of activity' as a goal?

Nothing lasts forever. Except World of Warcraft apparently but I attribute that to making a deal with the great Satan.

Does that shit work? Cause I’m actually Brad Pitts younger brother who was abandoned from the family because I was deemed not beautiful enough. It was ok though. I found a happy life until my wife was savagely murdered by a roving gang of post apocalyptic mutants while I travelled through Nebraska. Apparently Nebraska is in fact the same wasteland as the Road Warrior. My wife then gave birth to our son who was put in to the military four years later and then she got married and had three children. I love my daughter

Did I summarize this dudes life alright? I know quite a few people on this thread and was on several conversations about all of it. Between all of you who know who I am here. This is why I emphasize don’t trust online people. Assume everyone is a piece of shot and you won’t be disapppinted.

So I was having a conversation with a MU associate this weekend (I don't have friends) and the conversation sort of evolved into discussing the state of games and the swelling of some games, the struggles of others, you know the usual sort of banter we get into.

I made the point of stating that one of the biggest hindrances to the growth of MUs is the lack of activity, whether it is in the form of storytelling plots, general scenes, or simple 'things to do'. This was countered with the statement of how players need to have their own motivation to do things. Round and round things went, as has been hashed by many of us.

My question is this. What tools would players need to be able to run story for themselves, meaningful story beyond just BarP? I see from some posts and statements that people want to be able to impact the world their characters are in (I see the growth of Legacy boardgames as an extension of this mentality, being able to impact the overall environment). This is what I have so far, I'd love to see some criticism, collaboration, or general ranting/raving in regards:

1. Easy to utilize 'system' for running stories that includes the capability for the player running to participate as well.
   a) Such a system would need to deal with success and failure. What happens when the players fail to accomplish the goals? Does anything happen? Does that change the world as well?

2. Pre-written story leads to help start things rolling when there is a lack of organic ideas.

3. An ongoing measure of impact of player action / inaction. In other words, if players don't do things does the story continue to advance? If the players don't investigate a fire does more shit burn? Is that a beneficial approach?

With those basic questions, is this an approach to pursue, and if it is, how would one do it? I know I've grown bored with games where I lounge RP around waiting for a staffer to maybe run something, but then gets pissed off if it disrupts their sandbox when you do something on your own.

I believe the people who run Inheritance Gambit have done an amazing job with FATE.

Lord Acton?

I've pleasured myself on the Saga games quite a bit over the years, a lot of familiar names and sadly familiar attitudes. A couple of non-profound insights for you all to chew over.

#1) D20 games are not meant for PvP encounters and are not balanced around such. This isn't even a Saga specific thing. Prior to Covid I have been getting paid to DM games at local stores (it's honestly a really fun gig, I suggest people look into it!) and the reality of PvP comes up every once in awhile. You know what I've discovered? It doesn't fucking work. These games are meant to be STORY TOLD by a GM against NPC threats. All of these fucking MUSHes are trying to be some kind of E-Peen contest and then it falls on its face and people wonder why.

#2) What the fuck does history from 5 years ago about who did what with whom have to do with jack, or shit? This thread is about a new game, ran by a guy named Obie who is trying from what I can see to do something for the community. A lot of this thread had Zero to do with his advertisement and more to do with people rehashing old issues. If you have suggestions for the game runner, make them to him but holy shit that's a lot of long posts.

#3) If you can do better; I bet you can get access to the Database by asking for it.

#4) Warma is spot on. Holy shit you people are stuck in the past. I remember all those games you listed and yeah, all of them had faults that eventually drove them to close. Too bad they're not all ike Firan that stayed open forever...oh wait. Well maybe like Reno that stayed open forev... or maybe more like... ALL FUCKING GAMES SHUT DOWN OVER TIME. You can learn from the mistakes they made but you'll make new mistakes. Enjoy what you have and if you don't enjoy it, do it yourself or move on.

#5) Revisit #1. PvP games are never going to be 'balanced' because the winners cheese and the losers cry. So don't play them or make them if you can't handle those outcomes.

(Additional Note: I know Rodney Thompson, the guy who wrote Saga Edition for WotC, relatively well. I've told him stories about what people have done on the games and he uproariously laughed at the concept of competitive Saga Edition.)

Unfortunately I avoid the politics forum because if I wanted to see rabid animals I'd go to the vet on rabies day.

What harm was caused by this man in his life? Funding politicians that support his political viewpoint is now causing harm?

@Ghost And that is my position as well. I could frankly give zero fucks about David Koch. What I do give a fuck about is people who would celebrate someone's death because they don't follow the same political path they do. That's pretty jacked up and indicative of the true societal problem.

So to clarify, you hate him because of his lack of 'humanity' so you shall express your hatred by ... showing a lack of humanity at his death. Logical.

Thought: Someone who donates millions of their dollars to charitable organizations, museums, etc. dies and the response is 'about fucking time' because you don't like their politics (which can you enumerate their politics) and that's ok.

But if I say something along the lines of 'Good riddance to Peter fonda, I can't believe he called someone a 'C' in twitter' we'll sign off on that right?

@Wizz
I'm sure the mu community st large could handle mature content without having issues.

Said no one ever

@Auspice

I believe with a fully OC game though you have less issues with the 'my character should be x' perceptions based off the 'canon' bullcrap. That said, FATE would be a solid choice. There's a ton of other amazing choices out there also and I'm very curious to see how the community responds to the game.

@ZombieGenesis
I wonder if there's some correlation with "gear" and "systems" in sci fi

The same convo popped up around firefly. The recent Star Trek game based around story and not space sim faltered. Is there something about those genres the players are expecting to possess loots and ships?

@ZombieGenesis
I think you hit this spot on. The reservation to do things because of expectations of codebase. I was struggling to frame it.

As for games interested in? Anything. Right now we have a deficit of games. My own thought specifically would be something that possesses a cooperative competitive environment. A game where players are telling stories but can also be working towards goals. How this looks is a different question