[Eldritch] Sphere Caps & Waiting Lists

[Coin]

@Arkandel, you essentially start from scratch. We know this will likely be unpopular, but yeah. There are exceptions, among which "if you character dies due to plot/PK, and it wasn't planned", you can transfer a certain amount of XP.

Yeah, we know it's difficult to adjudicate. But that's the idea at the moment.

[Arkandel]

@Coin said:

@Arkandel, you essentially start from scratch. We know this will likely be unpopular, but yeah. There are exceptions, among which "if you character dies due to plot/PK, and it wasn't planned", you can transfer a certain amount of XP.

Yeah, we know it's difficult to adjudicate. But that's the idea at the moment.

Meh! I don't like that approach, but at least you know what you intend to do and you state it beforehand. So fair enough.

[Deleted]

I like the idea of XP transfers only being allowed if you die on grid. It encourages people to end their characters rather than let them fade away.

[Arkandel]

So I was thinking lately (no, it didn't hurt) about a PC for Eldritch and although my immediate inclination was for an Uratha, I was a bit concerned about a potentially not-very-popular sphere's place in a game. Namely, about being stuck in a position where all the other kids are doing their thing in sphere-specific events while the minorities might not have as many things to do.

Remo was like that once with Werewolf (although I'm happy to hear it's much better now) since everything was happening in Vampire to the point where Wolfbloods were actively trying to get Ghouled just to get out of and find things to do. In other words this isn't a theoretical concern, it can happen very easily.

So how about this as an approach to address these things:

Have most meta-plots thrown by staff be crossovers by definition. Then require rank holders to throw thematic PrPs for their groups; so the player of whoever's in charge of the Lancea Sanctum has to run (say) two scenes a month for that Covenant.

The latter not only ensures you'll still get regular sphere-specific plots anyway (which is on top of what players themselves decide to run as PrPs, of course) but also addresses a chronic issue with MU* where people chase ranks for their PCs but, once achieved, they do little with them other than throw them around in posts.

I think this way you'd find fewer people isolated in the smaller spheres in the long run and get the players who are the most involved to be the ones achieving ranks. Of course I don't know how you folks feel about requirements like that.

Just an idea.

[Miss Demeanor]

As long as SOMEONE in a given Covenant is willing to run that stuff on an OOC basis, I don't care if the Primogen would rather take a more hands-off approach. They are, after all, mostly meant to be the voice of the Covenant and liason FOR the Covenant. The highest ranking Kindred in a given Covenant isn't necessarily going to be the Primogen.

[The Tree of Woe]

It helps that the Covenants work better in 2nd Ed. Invictus oaths keep the covenant functional and make living under Invictus rule palatable, even desirable, for members of other covenants.

The authority of a lot of the particular positions in the Ordo Dracul is more clearly defined and in many cases backed by a merit. For instance, if a Dragon Judge catches wind of forbidden research, they can tell the Axe-Sworn "bring his ass in" clear as... well, night.

[Arkandel]

@Miss-Demeanor That's true. My main concern here is that if most plots work internally per sphere then due to population alone it's possible the disadvantage regarding finding meaningful non-bar RP to begin with would simply become more evident.

So making metaplot and staff-ran PrPs be crossovers by default would help this issue a lot.

The rest of the idea was meant to help people within spheres find some plot anyway since not every group has access to a ST by default.

[Thenomain]

The very first decision I heard about running things was how Evil Owls and Angels and Loonies will all get all up in each other's business, assuring that all plot can potentially drag through multiple spheres. No one group will be treated lightly by another sphere's big-bad.

That is, Strix may screw up something the God-Machine is doing and cause some collateral effects that gain the attention of PCs. Maybe even Werewolf PCs.

This was when I went from installing chargen to coding everything.

[Arkandel]

@Thenomain Sounds good to me, then.

[Eerie]

@Arkandel Well, despite STILL not having seen a the new Werewolf.... pause for obligatory grrr... I don't know if I would assume they'll be the least popular sphere. My expectation is that werewolves will end up being more the death machines they were conceptualized as but were not in nWoD, and closing that gap between theme and fact may make them more interesting to people. I know of some people already planning wolves for Eldritch too, so I know you'll at least have some company.

That being said, yes, plots that directly involve a mishmash of everyone all at once is the goal for a big chunk of the metaplot. I'm sure the vampires or wolves or demons will also choose to do bits amongst their own, if only to have interesting reasons to act mysterious around the other groups, but there's going to be more crossover than not. I have my first bit of the metaplot arc planned already and I promise it will suit you in this respect.

@Thenomain Hey! First rule of Evil Owls is don't nobody talk about evil owls...

[Thenomain]

@Eerie said:

@Thenomain Hey! First rule of Evil Owls is don't nobody talk about evil owls...

I thought you guys were telling me "stop making fun of Evil Owls". I didn't think they were serious enough to consider not talking about them for any other reason.

(I'm kidding, folks. Strix hit my Silly Plot-Device button, but I'm made assure by real story-tellers that they're good enemies.)

[Arkandel]

@Eerie said:

@Arkandel Well, despite STILL not having seen a the new Werewolf.... pause for obligatory grrr... I don't know if I would assume they'll be the least popular sphere. My expectation is that werewolves will end up being more the death machines they were conceptualized as but were not in nWoD, and closing that gap between theme and fact may make them more interesting to people.

This would be my third attempt at playing Uratha. The first time it just failed because HM's sphere was made of cliques where RP went to die; you were either in a pack with the staff alts or you didn't exist. The second time was on Reno and I honestly liked the RP but nothing was happening (at the time); no metaplot, no direction, no theme.

Either way yes, having upgraded mechanics so your all-powerful foe-grinder isn't actually made of wet toilet paper would be great.

The other thing I actually meant to ask is, how are you planning to handle Renown? One of the main things that drew me to Reno in the first place was that raising it didn't involve jumping through hoops, hoping for oh-so convenient PrPs to fill the exact thing you needed a lot for and trusting that the powers that be granted you that next spend - all while your Mage could get Life Mastery for the price of an one-line +job.

I hate bureaucracy in spends so much. Just let me buy things with my damn XPs.

[Eerie]

@Arkandel said:

The other thing I actually meant to ask is, how are you planning to handle Renown? One of the main things that drew me to Reno in the first place was that raising it didn't involve jumping through hoops, hoping for oh-so convenient PrPs to fill the exact thing you needed a lot for and trusting that the powers that be granted you that next spend - all while your Mage could get Life Mastery for the price of an one-line +job.

Well, so far we are desperately trying to avoid making decisions about Werewolf until... you know... we've read the book. Honestly, I want to murder people at this point for being this far beyond schedule, but I am told any day now so cross your fingers. After it comes out and we've read it, I will do my best to remember to come back to this question.

[Coin]

@Arkandel, we're honestly not sure how Renown will work, as of yet. I need to see the book before I can decide. I have some ideas on how to handle it that involves less hoops than usual, but isn't "just spend XP with absolutely no service paid to Renown being an act-dependent stat".

So we'll see. I'll give it the consideration it deserves and requires when I've got the full-scope.

[Deleted]

@Coin Renown should be decided by a small committee of staff and based purely on TS prowess.

Like it was in the oWoD days.

[Coin]

Works for me, @Admiral.

[Arkandel]

See, I'm one of the people who writes long-ass justifications by default. Even when it makes no difference, since spends often include things that don't come up in daily RP (my character goes to the gym --> his stamina increases) I like to sit down and actually put the process in words. And since I ST, it's not that big a deal to swap plots with someone else.

What I intensely dislike is having to do it. Why? Because it's mandatory, it turns RP into a chore. It's not at all organic, you know? And it doesn't even serve a purpose - it's not like my roleplay will get better because I was in a hastily put together custom-made plot until a checkbox could be crossed.

I remember on HM when you needed a log to 'prove' you were taught something (or players might lie, as they do) and I was roleplaying teaching someone... I think it Spirit. The scene was horrible, the other person very clearly didn't want to be doing it so their poses were unimaginative as hell, there wasn't even a build-up. Neither of us enjoyed it at all. So why did we have to do it, who benefited from that?

Yes, if someone wants to play something out then by all means they should, it's fun! But the mandatory aspect of it, arghh. "Hey, can you please run me a Glory 3 scene?" is one of the things I don't like having to type, I hate asking for scenes - in fact I hate asking people for things in general.

At least - unless of course the 2nd Edition ends up changing how Renown works altogether - consider accepting justifications for the "act-dependent stat" portion of the exercise.

</endrant>

[Coin]

At the same time, @Arkandel, accepting that someone who does nothing but sit around talking OOC can, be sheer dint of having accumulate enough passive XP, buy a Renown trait at 5, without doing anything in-character to justify it, makes my blood boil. If it were Arcana? Bah, whatever. If it were a Discipline? Bah, whatever.

But Renown is specifically tied to doing shit, to actual deeds, so that's something I need to account for when I end up figuring out how to handle it.

We'll see. I'm going to try for something that strikes a balance, I can promise that.

[Arkandel]

@Coin said:

At the same time, @Arkandel, accepting that someone who does nothing but sit around talking OOC can, be sheer dint of having accumulate enough passive XP, buy a Renown trait at 5, without doing anything in-character to justify it, makes my blood boil. If it were Arcana? Bah, whatever. If it were a Discipline? Bah, whatever.

Absolutely. But any justification works the same way. If I do a +req/xp Stamina 4=My guy has been going to the gym A LOT and you accept it, it means that no matter what I've explicitly roleplayed about, my PC has actually gone out there and done a bunch of barbell squats. It's an IC fact, I just never had to have a scene where I posed him getting an 1RM record on his deadlifts; I could have, and it might have been fun, but it wasn't necessary.

If that's alright that then it's not any kind of leap to also accept +req/xp Glory 4=My guy fought five Dickwolves in the Shadow and kicked their asses because then that, too, happened IC. The lunes (or whatever in 2nd Edition) saw it!

And yeah, it's too early to talk before the rules are out, but better early than late right?

[Thenomain]

How many times have I asked for early access to the new Werewolf book? Make this six.

Edit: we barely have a /request/ system, let alone a justification one. I myself am not willing to settle on an answer to a thing until we get closer to the relevance of the question.

Academically, tho, tread on!