Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question

[ZombieGenesis]

Thanks a lot everyone, I really appreciate the help.

[Ganymede]

@skew

Yeah. And the Onyx Path took them as a basis for Beast.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

[Bobotron]

@zombiegenesis
Not specifically related to your Bloodlines topic, but...

So when thinking about bloodlines I'm trying to think about the above theme and the city in general. We have the obvious notes of gangs (Bruja), international(so maybe some cultural clans like the Giovanni or Ravnos),

So you're planning on mixing in OWoD conversion Clans as Bloodlines?

oWoD Sabbat like group allowing for some old-school type oWoD clans (Tzimisce for instance).

Just use VII. Use the Houses version of VII from the VII book, and you are good. You get your internal politics, your hate-on for regular Kindred and some neat powers that should pop to 2E easily if you choose to use them.

[ZombieGenesis]

RE: oWoD clans as bloodlines

• Those seem to be pretty popular on other games (Bruja, Toreador, Sangiovanni) so I figure why not? They're familiar and popular, sounds good to me.

RE: VII

• That's a good idea, I'll look into it. Thanks.

[Bobotron]

@zombiegenesis
They're popular, sure. But popular doesn't mean good. Hell, anything from the Bloodlines the Chosen book is iffy, as it was written by fans (mostly members of the Camarilla) for a contest.

The Houses version of VII is my favorite. It's well-written and provides interesting political stuff, as they also have a bent for infiltration and sabotage into the Covenants. So you don't just have OH GOD THEY'RE BURNING ELYSIUM.

[Ganymede]

@zombiegenesis said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

RE: oWoD clans as bloodlines

• Those seem to be pretty popular on other games (Bruja, Toreador, Sangiovanni) so I figure why not? They're familiar and popular, sounds good to me.

They fall easily intro tropes, to the point where you don't have to think about it. That said, I know very few people who've played a 2E Toreador, or a 1E Toreador. Because Toreador suck.

That said, I thought about your game.

The last MUSH I played onset in LA was LA: A House Divided. It was pretty neat because you had factions ruling over bits and pieces of the city. And taking the name 'City of Angels', I thought I'd put a deity/religious spin on the bloodlines too, thinking that, maybe, you could tie that in somehow with how a vampire practices blood sorcery.

Like Reno, I see each of the bloodlines having a bloodline gift and boon, an extra in-clan discipline, and a series of devotions to buy or a non-clan form of blood magic instead of the gift and devotions (like the Tzimisce). For each Clan, I am coming up with three lines, each linked to a deity; those deities are from American, Old World, and Asian World traditions, and there is one for each group.

So far, I've come up with the following (patron/matron gods are next to the bloodline name):

Daeva Bloodlines

Malintzin (Tzazolteotl): Named after the mistress of Cortes, the Malintzin are preoccupied with artistic expression, licentiousness, and the proliferation and preservation of Ando-American cultures. Celerity, Dominate, Majesty, Vigor. (SoM, p. 101; VtR, p. 246.) (Kind of like Toreador, with more emphasis on using art and culture to enslave people.)

Ombosines (Set): Masters of emotional manipulation, the ever-subtle Ombosines practice a secret form of magic passed down through the millennia said to have been taught to them by the desert itself. Celerity, Majesty, Obfuscate, Vigor. (Mekhet, p. 92; V:20, p. 52.) (Will probably have some form of Setite Sorcery, like what you might find in oWoD Vampire or in the Mekhet Clanbook under the Followers of Seth.)

Shakti (Durga): Descendants of the Supreme Being, the Shakti see themselves as the pen-ultimate form of divinity on Earth, and revere the universe as a matronly source of creation, inspiration, power, and destruction. Animalism, Celerity, Majesty, Vigor. (AB, p. 43; Circle, p. 165.) (Basically, the Amara Havana, but under a different name and with a different twist.)

Gangrel Bloodlines

Bohagande (Coyote): Followers in the tradition of Coyote, the Bohagande manipulate the threads of fate for survival and personal profit. Animalism, Auspex, Protean, Resilience. (BL:Hidden, p. 38.) (Will have to alter that bloodline flaw because it blows for a MUSH.)

Taifa (Kusor): Gangrel hailing from the Iberian Peninsula claim descent from Kusor, the Carthaginian god of intellect, and are known for being genial, well-mannered, and scholarly, despite their propensity for savagery. Animalism, Majesty, Protean, Resilience. (BL: Chosen, p. 75)

Xiao Laohu (Li Shou): These Chinese Gangrel are noted for being able to blend into the cityscape like no other urban predator, but are also known for being a little lazy as a result of those abilities. Animalism, Obfuscate, Protean, Resilience. (Custom.) (Think City Gangrel Cats, but kind of lazy because cats. Also, will have blood magic akin to the Gilded Cage, but with an emphasis not just on knowledge but on concealment.)

Will continue to work in spare time.

[skew]

@ganymede You suck.

[Ganymede]

@skew

What? What did I do this time?

[Lithium]

@ganymede You were super awesome, those Bloodlines look pretty neat.

[Thenomain]

Here are these bloodlines applied to my GMC/CoD stat system (probably would work identically on my older stat system):

https://github.com/thenomain/GMCCG/blob/master/Z - Game Lines/Vampire the Requiem/VtRz - The Descent - Bloodlines.txt

Should give anyone enough code to apply to their own games.

[surreality]

So far as I know, Reno is just continuing on from where it was with a wiki and code update -- same everything world-wise, same characters on grid at the same levels, etc. I initially thought it was a reboot, too, but just a move of 2.0 apparently, so all the old content (more or less) is still there (or will be, if they have the info to enter since the original wiki is now gone).

(I was only able to set up tools for them to mad scramble things over in the time I had, not really transfer anything but a test instance or two of each myself in most cases, which I gather they'll remove if they don't want it, so I couldn't say what's staying or going or why it's there. I'm still building tools... eeee.)

[Killer Klown]

For the most part you can re-create most of the existing bloodlines. I do like the way Khaibit did it, in that their 'powers' are in fact devotions, and you get a static boon and bane as part of the bloodline - but otherwise your clan discs and whatnot remain as is.
One thing I will suggest though - for gods sake, do not try and mangle Dead Wolves into the mix. Those were problematic to begin with, and with the way Werewolf/Wolfbloods work now (Where WB's are a full blown Mortal+ Template with their own range of powers and abilities; rather than just a x-dot merit you stick on your sheet); and the entire shakeup about Totems and who/how access is given to them it really, really doesn't work.

[Coin]

I like Dead Wolves, personally. I just think they need an extra little work to make them stand out as more than just "vampire wolf-blooded".

[Killer Klown]

They're fine in 1e - they just don't work thematically or mechanically given the 2e Werewolf rules, though.
Plus even in 1e they didn't really follow the rules, in that a WB getting embraced really shouldn't be any different than any other Mortal or Mortal+ getting embraced. There's really nothing special about them that the Embrace would latch on to - especially since Dead Wolves got benefits with regards to spirits and pack joining that even WB's didn't.

[surreality]

@killer-klown ...did they change the thing about WB keeping tells if they got embraced or whatnot? I seem to recall that, despite my otherwise all-around brain-purge of all things WtF2E. That seemed to be how 2E on the whole was going to address the Dead Wolf concept in general.

[Killer Klown]

To my knowledge they never addressed it at all. Reno tried to HR convert it, but it was never really effective. There was certainly no official support on it. Wolfbloods just changed significantly from 1e to 2e, though; they became a full blown Mortal+ minor template. It was analogous to letting a psychic or thaumaturge get something special or become a unique kind of Vampire that nothing else had access to with a number of vestiges of their previous template when they get embraced just because they were psychic or thaumaturge.

[surreality]

@killer-klown Reno HR converted it by saying 'no, that's not going to be a thing'. I recall this because I did that original conversion.

Page 300, WtF2E:

Sometimes within the course of a chronicle, a Wolf-Blood- ed character may change her core nature. She may experience the First Change, be ghouled or Embraced by a vampire, be drawn into the Hedge, or even Awaken as a Mage, should the story benefit from those changes. In any of these cases, the Storyteller may require the character lose any Wolf-Blooded Merit she has to reflect her disconnect from Father Wolf and Luna. In this case, consult the Sanctity of Merits rules on p. 105. Unless she goes through the First Change, a Wolf-Blood- ed character retains her Tell if she becomes another kind of supernatural creature.

[Killer Klown]

Yeah, that rule is a bit peculiar too - and the main reason it didn't work on Reno was because they let WB buy multiple Tells <Really you're supposed to only get one - maybe two with an additional merit>. As such, a WB transitioning to another splat might be able to keep their 'original' tell by that rule but they would lose any bought through merits <as per Sanctity of merits>.
It still doesn't mean they should get an entire Bloodline/whatever to themselves - even if they were allowed to keep the Tell.

[surreality]

@killer-klown You'd have to ask for clarification on the OP forums for all of that, how many more they can take or if it's only one more, or if the merit Tell would be treated as any other Tell rather than 'a spiritual link to father wolf' etc. I can't say I care enough at this point to look.

The reason it didn't work on Reno was because nobody else got to keep their shit, and we didn't consider that balanced or fair, hence 'we will not be doing that'. I know this because, again, I'm the one who created that HR. Please don't presume to know my logic better than I do, it's not so kosher.

I don't see this as the 2E 'new bloodline'. I think 'WB keep the Tell' is how they just out and out replaced Dead Wolves entirely as a bloodline conceptually and don't plan on making any special bloodline at all for them going forward in the canon material.

[Ganymede]

Adding in proposed bloodlines for the other three Clans.

Mekhet

Iktomi (Kokyangwuti): Minions of the Hopi Spider Grandmother, the Shadows that prowled California before its borders were drawn still watch over its people, aid those that deserve it and terrorizing the evil among them. Auspex, Celerity, Nightmare, Obfuscate. (Custom.) (Think Vampire Sluagh, with a leaning towards the Lynx.)

Iltana (Ishhara): These Shadows claim descent from Queen Iltani, an ancient ruler in Babylon, who mastered and managed her husband’s household with ruthless efficiency, and was supposedly sent by the Scorpion Queen herself. Animalism, Auspex, Celerity, Obfuscate. (AB, p. 145.) (Scorpion wins. Also, Merges Sorcery)

Otaku (Hotei): Some Shadows don’t like to stay there; some of them enjoy being in the spotlight, or, in the case of the Japanese Otaku, becoming the culture that they have watched from afar. Auspex, Celerity, Majesty, Obfuscate. (BL:Legendary, p. 117.) (The Players, but with a sinister, macabre, Japanese anime twist, with Devotions similar to The Moulding Room.)

Nosferatu

Cauldron-Born (Arawn): Allegedly spawned from a magic cauldron, these Haunts are the undead servants of Matholwch, an ancient Irish King who fought against the giants of Britain before the coming of Rome, who have mastered the power of death, which they use to rule their underground fiefdoms. Dominate, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor. (BL:Legendary, p. 10.) (The non-Lancea Sanctum side of the Bron, and more in line with what the Mabinogion described.)

Stone-Clad (Atahsaia): The quixotic Stone-Clads prefer the sanctity of the mountains and open spaces than the concrete of cities, but their patron demon of Zuni mythology has other ideas for the foreigners that have spoiled the land. Nightmare, Obfuscate, Resilience, Vigor. (Custom.) (Stoneskinned cannibals (you may recall the same as nunnehi), I sort of see these guys as being bruisers that would rather spend their evenings staring up at the sky)

Rakshasa (Mahishasura): The divine opposites of the Shakti, these monstrous Haunts claim lineage from a great buffalo demon, and seek enlightenment in battle to become true demons. Nightmare, Obfuscate, Protean, Vigor. (BL:Hidden, p. 116.) (The opposite of the Shakti, who feast on the fear of their enemies.)

Ventrue

Dayyani (Tiamat): Whereas the Kerberoi claim that they were the first arbiters as to who should be embraced, the Dayyani claim that they were the first judges in the first cities of Mesopotamia. They believe their authority was usurped by the male priests of the Storm-God Marduk. Now, they seek a reversal of fortunes for patriarchal society. Animalism, Dominate, Nightmare, Resilience. (Custom.) (Sort of a new idea, intended to play off with the Iltani; probably have some ancient sort of magic, but I'm not sure what yet, if any.)

Kupua (Maui): What can I say except “you’re welcome”? These Polynesian seafarers are known for playing pranks on others, some of which have had deadly consequences. Animalism, Dominate, Protean, Resilience. (Custom.) (Because Sharkhead, that's why. Also, plays into West Coast surfer culture -- basically, Polynesian Rotgrafen)

Nahualli (Huitzilopochtli): A relatively-new bloodline, the Nahaulli derive their beliefs from Aztec philosophies, and more often than not give their sacrifices to the Aztec God of War. Animalism, Auspex, Dominate, Resilience. (BL:Hidden, p. 78.) (As per the Bloodline book.)

That's what I've come up with so far. I haven't written anything out in detail. ZG, if you want me to work on these, I can, but it might take a few weeks; that batch I did for The Descent took my three or four weeks of constant work, and my RL work and life schedule is pretty hectic.