Fate Development Thread

[Kairos]

@JinShei and @Kumakun

Quite correct that any kind of system with a numbers based progression will eventually have dinosaurs. One method I've used to solve that in the past was good old decay and cap. Make progression slow after a certain point and then stop altogether after another. In the past the people I've worked with have coupled that with awarding experience to the player rather than to the character and letting them spend it on whichever character they like.

This DOES introduce the additional wrinkle that you do eventually have to come up with something else for players to spend their milestones on because at some point they'll have all the characters that they want and those characters will be maxed out but so long as you tune your progression system right you won't have to think of that for a little bit.

Also hello Jin! I remember DS quite fondly. Nice to see you about again.

[WildBaboons]

@jinshei Mikhail the warm fuzzy Warden

[JinShei]

@wildbaboons ohhh you were lovely

[Kumakun]

@jinshei said in Fate Development Thread:

I agree, his ideas have a distinct merit (As they often do). I think there is an inevitability to the dino problem because active people progress. Maybe the milestones come slower as people move up? Removing votes helps but replace with praise that gains nothing except warm fuzzy feels.

I think having a mechanism where other players can upvote a scene should have some benefit, perhaps replacing those 'votes' for something special (refresh? Fate points?) I'd think with a bunch of upvoting particular characters are going to have more impact on the game's overarching fiction giving them a little more story clout anyways.

[JinShei]

@kumakun there is always the risk of voting circles, and of people crashing big scenes, getting their vote and going to the next one. I've seen that plenty of times, especially where voting can be seen...

[Kumakun]

@jinshei I meant more so the log is posted online, and upvoting is allowed to occur over time. Once a scene's log reaches a certain level of 'votes', it gets elevated to the featured scenes page of the website, representing the caliber of RP on the game. I think THAT should be rewarded with perks. I plan on having scenes set for size limits, private, etc depending on what the lead person taking the reins wants.

[JinShei]

@kumakun an interesting idea... I'll be interested to see how it plays out.

[Thenomain]

@kumakun said in Fate Development Thread:

Once a scene's log reaches a certain level of 'votes', it gets elevated to the featured scenes page of the website, representing the caliber of RP on the game.

Great, this makes me conflicted. Here are the two conversations going on in my head:

• This is a great idea! People get involved and read the awesome things, and people are more likely to be awesome to get attention! Positive activity between players is always good. Go go go!

• Okay, so what you're saying is that you want to let the bigger cliques dominate the cultural dialogue. Hell, you're saying that if the players decide the game is about a certain thing and upvote that thing enough that this is what you want your game to be known for.

I think the idea is great and mostly harmless and I'm far more excited to see an implementation than worried how poorly it could go.

[Kumakun]

@thenomain said in Fate Development Thread:

Great, this makes me conflicted. Here are the two conversations going on in my head:

• This is a great idea! People get involved and read the awesome things, and people are more likely to be awesome to get attention! Positive activity between players is always good. Go go go!

• Okay, so what you're saying is that you want to let the bigger cliques dominate the cultural dialogue. Hell, you're saying that if the players decide the game is about a certain thing and upvote that thing enough that this is what you want your game to be known for.

I thought about this too. What if it's the same people that decide the direction of the game. I figured I would have some sorting features like 'all time', 'today' 'this week', 'by sphere' etc - and default to popular this week, just to keep the front page fresh. I've never been a big fan of 'on rails' over-arching plot. You start with one idea, but if your player base decides to focus on a different aspect of your universe? Roll with it! Plus I've had this idea about being able to organize your scenes into chapters, or anthologies or something, and give the players the ability to download or share short stories, or 'books' of fiction in different formats - direct link share for social media (with ability for upvotes and some other sort of reward), or even e-book or Kindle formats for Amazon if they want.

The meat of this hobby is about writing fiction together. I want to take it a step further and make it the point of the game, story building. It's why I think Fate would work so well. Now that I'm talking about it I /may/ even go with Accelerated just to add another layer of abstraction to the rules of the game.

[Wyrdathru]

I have been meaning to design a Fudge-based MU* core framework and set of associated contribs for Evennia for sometime. This would let me jumpstart my game, but if it all falls through, others can use it as a point to begin their own games. I compared Fudge and Fate at the time, and ended up picking Fudge, due to its Open Game License origins and bare bones nature. The framework will likely incorporate optional house rules and assumptions that should be possible to turn off.

With that all said, what are the major benefits to Fate over Fudge? I noticed there were a few additives to the system, but for my needs they were not particularly necessary. Has anyone got any first hand experience using the systems to compare what makes Fate better, friendlier, etc?

[Kumakun]

@wyrdathru said in Fate Development Thread:

With that all said, what are the major benefits to Fate over Fudge? I noticed there were a few additives to the system, but for my needs they were not particularly necessary. Has anyone got any first hand experience using the systems to compare what makes Fate better, friendlier, etc?

I view Fate to Fudge the same way I view a framework to a programing language. The language itself might be vast and powerful with TONS of features, but a framework gives you a set of directions to use those vast features as a set of best practices - and sometimes, abstracts the language into a format that easier to digest. I feel that Fate does the same thing for Fudge.

For some, Fudge might be a dream, it's hella open and vast in its possibilities, but Fate has created several 'design patterns' and best practices if you will, for Fudge, that works pretty damn well. The Fate Fractal? Brilliant.

I haven't had any experience personally running it online yet, but I feel the 'challenge' for using a Fudge-based derivative is onboarding and educating new players to the system. It really is different than most of what's popular out there and being used currently. I think it'll be all about presentation.

[Thenomain]

@kumakun said in Fate Development Thread:

The meat of this hobby is about writing fiction together.

And that's why I like the idea. I mocked "log of the week" and "The Aether Oscars" on AetherMux, but it worked, and people liked it, and got excited for each other.

There are times when you tell the bitter person in your head to take a back seat. This is one of them.

[Kairos]

@Wyrdathru

From a licensing point of view I think the major advantage of Fate over Fudge is the fact that the current rev of Fate - Fate Core - is licensed creative commons as are a number of the Evil Hat developed supplements. ( Information here: http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/licensing-fate-cc-by/ )

This makes pick-and-mix quick and painless and any hacks are legit in a quite literal sense. In fact that licensing scheme has been a major consideration for me in the past. It's supremely unlikely, of course, to be assailed by a C-and-D but knowing you won't be told off for putting your system rules on a wiki is nice peace of mind.

[Kumakun]

Do you think Fate Accelerated is too abstract for new players or just the right amount of rules to get one's feet wet in the Fate universe? When I get to actual system coding, I'm going to give the setup choice between Core and Accelerated depending on what the particular game wants. Coding both versions won't be that hard once the general logic is done.

Right now I'm /really/ leaning towards Accelerated for its extra abstraction of rules, which I feel adds to the importance of story. But then I think 'what about Core with Skill modes?' (https://fate-srd.com/atomic-robo/modes) That might make people's lives easier! Granted, the same thing could be accomplished by setting your 'approaches' to represent career choices, but definitely not as granular which some might find more fulfilling.

By the way, if you haven't found it yet, fate-srd.com for those not in the know. It's THE BEST Fate Site IMHO, and can either just be referenced, or pretty much copied to your wiki (I believe).

What do you guys think? What would be the easiest transition for the FATE newbie?

[JinShei]

@kumakun I wanted to transition DS to the accelerated, and we had started that work I think. I think my main motivation was purely that - simpler and cheaper for players to get into it. the DF-RPG is not expensive but some people can't afford it and I always felt it best to make it as accessible as possible, as legally as possible.

[Kumakun]

@jinshei I'm wondering how well I'd be able to get away with using the DFA's Scale rules (You pointed me towards!) without coming under fire, for settings where there's an obvious imbalance between power tiers.

[JinShei]

@kumakun I don't see why not. It seems an ideal place to use it! What fire worries you?

Belatedly, I agree with the log thing that there is a risk of the Cool Kids driving the mush. We had it for a short time where a few players were driving and we ended up with a real problem. I agree that it is writing together but I think it is important that, when it turns negative, you have rules in place to step in and stop it.

[Kumakun]

@jinshei A super valid concern. Ultimately you need staff unafraid to say no and have a log submission and approval policy in place before allowing stories to go public and represent the game's fiction I think.

[WildBaboons]

I think it's really just a matter of personal preference. I personally way way preferred DF RPG over DFA. DFA just didn't grab me at all and lost my interest pretty quick when I was looking through it. I don't know how those two compare to Fate and Fate Accelerated but I'm not sure there is a best way

[JinShei]

@wildbaboons said in Fate Development Thread:

I think it's really just a matter of personal preference. I personally way way preferred DF RPG over DFA. DFA just didn't grab me at all and lost my interest pretty quick when I was looking through it. I don't know how those two compare to Fate and Fate Accelerated but I'm not sure there is a best way

This is definitely a YMMV issue. There is no One True Way