In development: pure OC superhero game
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What might get me off my keaster and RP on a mush is a superhero game based entirely on the second string heros.
Ergo, the ability to blow off hats, or shine shoes, tie strings/ropes, ability to make lightbulbs light up, ergo the powers that are pretty much pointless and worthless in nearly every category.
And have a game based entirely on these type of 'heros'.
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@lemon-fox I am definitely going to have some kind of pre-established tv network focuses on news about superheroes and villains like any other celebs, and there will be some kind of show starring a made for tv team. We had that happen on the original Crucible City and I loved reading those logs, so much fun.
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@ashen-shugar That sounds like a very fun idea, I would be interested in playing on such a game too! It won't be this game, I am going for a medley of power types and levels, but perhaps as things develop you will find something intriguing about it nonetheless.
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@kay Astro City
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Updating main post with bit about space!
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I'd be in for an all OC game; and an M&M 3e one at that. For what it's worth, here's a couple of ideas I've been running around with for my own 'in planning stage game'...
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Legacy Characters. Every player gets the chance to create 1 Legacy; whether it's an alien race, a hidden nation, or a lineage of characters using the same name stretching back decades (or even centuries depending on how you want to set your game history). You can even have the legacy change 'sides' over time (example: Marvel's Black Knight, who started off as a knight to King Arthur, had a descendant fight in the Crusades, the 60's descendant became a villain because the Ebony Blade rejected him, leading up to the modern incarnation, Dane Whitman, who was given the Ebony Blade and accouterments of the Black Knight by his villainous uncle repenting on his deathbed). Other players can tie their characters into a Legacy, but only with the permission of the original PC (A PC creates an Atlantean Legacy and another player wants to create an Atlantean PC, but needs to get the permission of the first player to do that.)
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Homage characters. Let's face it, there will be characters that are pastiches or straight off copies of big name characters. It's not necessarily a bad thing, since that's part of how new players learn a game or how to RP; it's just a thing. After all, Iron Man started out as Marvel's version of Batman, and the Fantastic Four were a super-powered version of the Challengers of the Unknown. So, each player gets 1 Homage character that's an obvious expy for a better known character. That doesn't mean straight carbon copy, though; The Confessor is Astro City's homage to Batman, but the characters are very different (same with Samaritan/Superman, Winged Victory/Wonder Woman, First Family/Fantastic Four).
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Two Cities. It sounds like you're already on this track, but the Metropolis/Gotham dynamic does help enforce a separation of themes. Rather than having the Batman-type character enforcing a 'No Supers in my city' rule, I would recommend that you set up the 'grittier' city to be deliberately anti-super/anti-vigilante (through corruption of city government, perhaps, which adds lots of 'clean up the city' style TP's for the vigilantes).
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Character Wills. It happens: RL or some other factor prevents a player from logging back in, and it disrupts the flow of the game if they were a PC vital to certain events. You can help mitigate the damage when this happens by making each player fill out a Will to determine what happens to the character when the player drops for whatever reason. Does it go into storage until the player returns? Does it become available for app by another player? Does it become a Staff NPC? Figuring out what happens beforehand is a good idea, IMO.
Looking forward to the game
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@runescryer For those who want to avoid the Metropolis/Gotham "two city grids" feeling of bloat, I could also see a night/day approach to tone/aesthetic (since it's often said that Metropolis is NYC in the daytime, while Gotham is NYC after dark). There doesn't have to be hard-enforced +time but rather just the knowledge that a scene meant to be taking place in the sunshine or in the shadows will learn more toward one end of the spectrum than the other?
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@fatefan Well, it's also possible to condense it to different areas/neighborhoods/suburbs have different themes. In Astro City, you have Shadow Hill housing the mystic threats and themes. Metropolis, you have the Central Business District for 'classic' superheroics and Suicide Slum on the same island for darker vigilante heroes. Part of why I recommend a two-city system has more to do with verisimilitude than genre conventions. There's an area of The City that's riddled with crime and corruption; why wouldn't the PC's spend time there to help clean it up and take down gangs and criminals that have no real chance of hurting the superheroes?
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@runescryer Very good point!
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@fatefan I call it the 'Frank Castle Unearthly Plot Armor' principle. I'm not pooh-pooing vigilante characters, but there's no logical reason why the metahuman heroes would just ignore all the killings and only 'focus on the Big Threats' aside from writing/editorial control. That's why I advocate a Two City system.
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It keeps power levels roughly in the same ballpark for city inhabitants/heroes. Punisher and Batman are on the same power level; Punisher and Superman aren't.
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It sets up RP and Events for the vigilante characters if the city they're in has a full on 'No Vigilantes' law that's backed by a corrupt city government to protect themselves from metahumans cleaning up their city. The superheroes that go and try to help clean things up are rebuffed by local law enforcement and government and the superheroes have to/should play by the rules. The vigilantes ignore the rules, which is entirely appropriate for them.
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I've always had problems with the hard line two city split personally and prefer a softer one. I hate when games take it to an extreme and say "Yo superman you aint never allowed anywhere near Gotham" as opposed to something a bit more loose of "Hey try not to frag the hell out of Gotham"
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@lemon-fox said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
I think a sponsored superhero who does it for fame and money like Booster Gold sounds really fun.
Look to the Luna Brothers' Ultra.
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@runescryer said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
I'd be in for an all OC game; and an M&M 3e one at that. For what it's worth, here's a couple of ideas I've been running around with for my own 'in planning stage game'...
- Legacy Characters. Every player gets the chance to create 1 Legacy; whether it's an alien race, a hidden nation, or a lineage of characters using the same name stretching back decades (or even centuries depending on how you want to set your game history). You can even have the legacy change 'sides' over time (example: Marvel's Black Knight, who started off as a knight to King Arthur, had a descendant fight in the Crusades, the 60's descendant became a villain because the Ebony Blade rejected him, leading up to the modern incarnation, Dane Whitman, who was given the Ebony Blade and accouterments of the Black Knight by his villainous uncle repenting on his deathbed). Other players can tie their characters into a Legacy, but only with the permission of the original PC (A PC creates an Atlantean Legacy and another player wants to create an Atlantean PC, but needs to get the permission of the first player to do that.)
I had this idea for my comic book game Exiled to Elsewhere, which was essentially a Marvel/DC/Image/WhateverReally version of Exiles in which the omniverse (i.e. every multiverse such as Marvel and DC exist), and the Panopticonis actually at the center of it all. Players don't get to play the canon versions of their heroes, or really any version that existed in print--but they do get to make up their own!
Show me Matt Murdock being legally adopted by Alfred after his father dies defending Martha and Thomas in Crime Alley right next to the theater where they'd gone to watch him box Crusher Creel. Who ends up Batman? Bruce or Matt? Do they fight crime together?
The reason I bring this up is basically my idea is: you make a character special to a specific world--some are just versions of one Earth in a specific multiverse (e.g. DC) and some are mixed (like what i proposed above) but the player owns that one universe. "Earth 345234" if your Earth. You made the first character from there and now have approval on anyone else who can be from there, and you are essentially the storyteller of your Earth. You can have adventures with others based on the Panopticon all the time, or just drop in once in a while and focus your RP on your Earth.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@coin said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
@runescryer said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
I'd be in for an all OC game; and an M&M 3e one at that. For what it's worth, here's a couple of ideas I've been running around with for my own 'in planning stage game'...
- Legacy Characters. Every player gets the chance to create 1 Legacy; whether it's an alien race, a hidden nation, or a lineage of characters using the same name stretching back decades (or even centuries depending on how you want to set your game history). You can even have the legacy change 'sides' over time (example: Marvel's Black Knight, who started off as a knight to King Arthur, had a descendant fight in the Crusades, the 60's descendant became a villain because the Ebony Blade rejected him, leading up to the modern incarnation, Dane Whitman, who was given the Ebony Blade and accouterments of the Black Knight by his villainous uncle repenting on his deathbed). Other players can tie their characters into a Legacy, but only with the permission of the original PC (A PC creates an Atlantean Legacy and another player wants to create an Atlantean PC, but needs to get the permission of the first player to do that.)
I had this idea for my comic book game Exiled to Elsewhere, which was essentially a Marvel/DC/Image/WhateverReally version of Exiles in which the omniverse (i.e. every multiverse such as Marvel and DC exist), and the Panopticon is actually at the center of it all. Players don't get to play the canon versions of their heroes, or really any version that existed in print--but they do get to make up their own!
Show me Matt Murdock being legally adopted by Alfred after his father dies defending Martha and Thomas in Crime Alley right next to the theater where they'd gone to watch him box Crusher Creel. Who ends up Batman? Bruce, or the much more appropriately blind Matt? Do they become The Owl and the Bat? Do they fight crime together?
The reason I bring this up is basically my idea is: you make a character special to a specific world--some are just versions of one Earth in a specific multiverse (e.g. DC) and some are mixed (like what i proposed above) but the player owns that one universe. "Earth 345234" if your Earth. You made the first character from there and now have approval on anyone else who can be from there, and you are essentially the storyteller of your Earth. You can have adventures with others based on the Panopticon all the time, or just drop in once in a while and focus your RP on your Earth.
I'd probably put some limits on how many versions of a particular character (and what constitutes 'versions'--to account for, for example, matt Murdock as Batman) can be active at any one time. But the REAL bonus is: your character is always yours. You made that Matt Murdock. No one can replace HIM. They can be some OTHER Matt. But not that one.
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@runescryer said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
@fatefan I call it the 'Frank Castle Unearthly Plot Armor' principle. I'm not pooh-pooing vigilante characters, but there's no logical reason why the metahuman heroes would just ignore all the killings and only 'focus on the Big Threats' aside from writing/editorial control. That's why I advocate a Two City system.
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It keeps power levels roughly in the same ballpark for city inhabitants/heroes. Punisher and Batman are on the same power level; Punisher and Superman aren't.
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It sets up RP and Events for the vigilante characters if the city they're in has a full on 'No Vigilantes' law that's backed by a corrupt city government to protect themselves from metahumans cleaning up their city. The superheroes that go and try to help clean things up are rebuffed by local law enforcement and government and the superheroes have to/should play by the rules. The vigilantes ignore the rules, which is entirely appropriate for them.
Also depending upon the nature of things, there is no reason to assume that big power superheroes would be terribly effective against a city just being shit. I mean Superman is not actually a huge benefit to law enforcement in the absence of superheroic threats, he can stop the five story high robot from demolishing city hall or punch the bulletproof guy cracking open banks. But can he really help against a racist housing agency? The mob shaking down corner shops? People paying bribes to get out of traffic violations?
Maybe? But mostly through his alter ego being an investigative reported which is something pretty much anyone can do. 99% of 'regular' crime is not an issue due to the cops being unable to fight the criminals.
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@packrat said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
Also depending upon the nature of things, there is no reason to assume that big power superheroes would be terribly effective against a city just being shit.
I see no inherent reason superpowered individuals wouldn't be at least as effective at any other form of crime as street level ones on a game, especially on a MUSH, and particularly if there's no systemic hurdle (i.e. artificially created by the creators) for them to overcome.
Was Luke Cage worse at fighting the Hand than Daredevil in the Defenders? Could he not deal with corruption in Harlem just as well in his own series? And yet he can knock down walls and throw cars around.
You can say this is just because of how he was written, and it's true, but remember that on MU* people always want to be able to do more, not less. You'll see street-level reimaginings of Superman wherever it's possible, able to tackle both that giant robot and the colorful pimp next door.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
@packrat said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
Also depending upon the nature of things, there is no reason to assume that big power superheroes would be terribly effective against a city just being shit.
I see no inherent reason superpowered individuals wouldn't be at least as effective at any other form of crime as street level ones on a game, especially on a MUSH, and particularly if there's no systemic hurdle (i.e. artificially created by the creators) for them to overcome.
Was Luke Cage worse at fighting the Hand than Daredevil in the Defenders? Could he not deal with corruption in Harlem just as well in his own series? And yet he can knock down walls and throw cars around.
You can say this is just because of how he was written, and it's true, but remember that on MU* people always want to be able to do more, not less. You'll see street-level reimaginings of Superman wherever it's possible, able to tackle both that giant robot and the colorful pimp next door.
There's another, practical reason why I advocate separation of 'Crimefighters/Vigilantes/Anti-Heroes' and 'Superheroes', and that has to do with the theme and conventions of the two categories. Many times, what's acceptable in the 'grittier' themed characters is unacceptable to the 'Four Color' characters, and that can create tension not just between characters, but between players as well.
Example: two decades or more ago, I was playing on a mixed-Universe comic game; I can't remember the name and it's long shut down by now. I was playing Wonder Woman and there was a hostage scene at a mall. Deadpool showed up on the trail of the hostage takers. Now, this was before Deadpool was the lovable bag o' mixed nuts that we love and shell out millions of dollars to see movies of today; this was back when Deadpool was still a 'More Deathstroke than Deathstroke' gritty mercenary anti-hero. The hostage situation was quickly resolved, but the encounter between Diana and Wade escalated (and not, as current Deadpool would say, 'in a fun way'). Diana wanted to turn the criminals over to the police. Deadpool disagreed and registered his disagreement by shooting one of the captured and bound criminals in the head. Diana was rather upset at this and tried to restrain Deadpool. To which, Deadpool said 'Eff this, I'm out...' and started tossing grenades into crowd to make his escape. A fun time was not had by all.
Neither character was being played 'wrong' or 'not as the character should be played', at the time. But, it gets to the heart that Heroes and Anti-Heroes sometimes just don't mix because of thematic natures. So, IMO, it's best to keep them separated so everyone can be happy and play what they want. ICA=ICC, of course. And if an anti-hero character goes on a huge Punisher-esque murder spree, players should feel enabled to bring that character to justice. But, when you have two polarizing views of what 'justice' entails...sometimes you get the Daredevil/Punisher rooftop chat, sometimes you get dead civilians who died as a cover for a character to make an escape. In the long run, it's best to minimize the potential conflicts that lead to the mass casualty results.
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@runescryer said in Interest check: pure OC superhero game:
A fun time was not had by all.
That is what has always been just incredibly bizarre to me about this hobby, because that scene and the fallout actually sound like an enormous amount of fun. If the Deadpool player in that scenario honestly threw up their hands and started stomping their feet at how other characters reacted to Deapool throwing grenades at innocents and executing criminals, that sounds less like a thematic conflict and more like a..."wow, what an immature tool" conflict.
Like, they're not playing in Deadpool: The MUSH, it's their responsibility to be cognizant of that fact.
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If it was a one-off occurance, then yes, i could chalk it up to 'immature tool'. But, it's happened 2 or 3 more times to me in supers games. And yes, I have considered the 'it's not them, it's you' possibility, but others that have been in those scenes assured me, without prompting, that it was indeed 'them'. Since the addition of 'Ratings' fields in character +fingers on many games, I've been able to avoid more of those situations by checking first before accepting or inviting someone to RP.
This isn't to wrongfun anyone; just because I'm not a fan of playing gun-toting vigilantes doesn't mean nobody should be. But, I have noticed that the 'permanent solution' vigilantes tend to attract a more hyper-aggressive kind of player; the kind that's completely willing to escalate things to a point where it makes a scene, or even a game, untenable. My most recent run in between my four color character and an anti-hero had the anti-hero threatening to hunt down and kill everyone that my character cared about unless I stepped aside and let him execute the criminals we'd just caught. Where am I supposed to go with that? Legally, I would have been justified in killing the character (following PK consent guidelines), with a claim of affirmative self-defense; he certainly had the capability to make good on his threat since he had guns that were able to take down large robots. And my character certainly had the power to do so. And the player themselves was pretty much goading me into trying to stop him, like they wanted this huge grudge to RP off of and go all Cape Fear on my character. The player wanted to poke the bear because they knew there would be no real consequences to their action; damned if I do, damned if I don't, damned because of player consent policy (which I do agree with).
So, give the heroes a place to be heroic in, give the vigilantes a place for them to do their thing in. Everyone's happy.
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I have the next two days off, so am hoping to get a bit more brainstorming done. Latest idea is to have the setting be in a fictional addition to Washington state, like a wing off the western coast that is its own county and has the yet-to-be-named metropolis. More liberty to do some world building without having to keep the RL Seattle or whatnot in mind.
