nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E

magee101

@jennkryst said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

I don't like flat XP costs.

To be fair, I (and I assume a non-zero number of others) would be totally cool with non... flat... xp costs if chargen followed this formula. Everyone starts with 1 dot in each attribute, 0 dots in everything else, and a pile of xp to spend on things.

The thing is, with CG how it is, you don't have to do complicated math to create a character. It is all just 1-1 with set limits of how many 1s you have. If you have a non-flat xp system and CG does not function as it does now suddenly to create a character you are doing a nearly full progression of algebra.

Tinuviel

@magee101 said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

all just 1-1

Except 5s. I believe they're supposed to be two points instead of one.

SunnyJ

@jennkryst All I hear about this TS Harmony stuff. Wanna know a quick fix for it? HR that it isn't a thing, or that staff isn't interested in it. Because staff shouldn't need to be brutalized by bad TS.

This is such a non-issue.

HR: Don't send us fucking-related Harmony rolls. Just don't.

Arkandel

@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

HR: Don't send us fucking-related Harmony rolls. Just don't.

It always sounded like bragging to me. "LOOK I HAD TEH SEX LOOK AND I WAZ HAIRY THEN"

Coin

@tinuviel said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

@magee101 said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

all just 1-1

Except 5s. I believe they're supposed to be two points instead of one.

Not in second edition / GMC, IIRC.

That was back in first edition in which if you wanted the fifth dot of something at chargen you had to pay double.

SunnyJ

@arkandel I don't know what the hell that is or what possesses someone to send staff that sort of thing, but staff has better things to do than being inflicted with that. It feels tactless, attention whorish and straight-up weird af.

Coin

I don't know. I wouldn't send staff the log of my TS (maybe there wasn't even TS, it was fade-to-black!) but if my character has sex with someone that would trigger a Harmony roll, then it's not really a big deal? "Yo, did the nasty with someone I shouldn't've, roll me some Harmony," isn't tactless or intrusive or attention whorish, IMO.

If the same person does it CONSTANTLY, then yeah, maybe--but I feel like removing that aspect just kind of further works to stigmatize sex in RP. "omg, it's sexual, keep it to yourself!" Like, come on.

I'm not saying staff should have to read logs--if that's the case, that's dumb (though I don't see why staff would feel the need to)--but otherwise it's like: yeah, roll for it, okay, up/down, next.

Taika

From a player's perspective:

The only time I have seen Harmony stuff come up was in cases of: 'OMG so-n-so did such-n-such with that person there and they need to be puniiiiiiished guys!' dramamongering.

From staffside:

I got policy that boils down to: nobody cares what uglies you bump, don't make your/their ts our problem. Seriously.

Ganymede

@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

All I hear about this TS Harmony stuff.

The entire prohibition or stigma of werewolves fucking was so stupid to begin with that its removal in 2E was like the dawn of the third day at Helm's Deep.

Arkandel

@ganymede said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

All I hear about this TS Harmony stuff.

The entire prohibition or stigma of werewolves fucking was so stupid to begin with that its removal in 2E was like the dawn of the third day at Helm's Deep.

Look, TS is just part of this hobby and it will happen on every game. Staff everywhere have to be aware of the fact. It doesn't matter what game you're running - superhero, Harry Potter, MLP, Transformers or grimdark fantasy.

Dread it, run from it, TS still arrives. You can spend all of your time trying to stop it or introduce consequences... or you can accept it'll happen and just work around it.

Coin

@ganymede said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

All I hear about this TS Harmony stuff.

The entire prohibition or stigma of werewolves fucking was so stupid to begin with that its removal in 2E was like the dawn of the third day at Helm's Deep.

They took that out and that's great, but in the new edition, fucking a human is, IIRC, a Harmony trigger towards Flesh (discussion has raged over whether wolf-bloods count).

So if you're a werewolf and you spend a night of passionate, fleshy-fleshy contact with some random human you hooked up with at the bar (or, even worse, suddenly find yourself in a committed relationship with someone who has absolutely no connection to anything spiritual) then that's a trigger towards Flesh--and that makes sense. It doesn't make it a bad thing, it just makes it one more thing that affects a werewolf's day-to-day struggle for balance. It can be an extremely good thing if you're imbalanced towards Spirit.

So the whole stigmatizing of this seems weird to me, especially in this post-TS world we all love to go on and on about where we dfon't judge people's sexual proclivities in their pretendyfuntimes but suddenly decide that if they actually have it mean something to their character and have an effect on their character's progression in a mechanical way, it's "get your TS out of my face omgggggg".

Again, asking staff to read your TS log is stupid.

Ganymede

@arkandel

I wasn't limiting my comment to TS and the MUSH world. I meant, in general. If werewolves having sex isn't a violation of ancient laws and doesn't have the risk of creating a monster, then it becomes a source of dramatic tension.

Peggy, CoG: "Al, let's have seeeeeex."
Al, Fenrir: "Uh, no, Peg." flushes toilet
McShady, Fianna: "HOLD MAH BEER!"

Tinuviel

I mean, if your game-basis-mechanic-book literally states "X happens if Y and Y have sex" you don't need a policy or HR to bypass that. Just kill offenders off with antagonist NPCs as a warning for others.

Kanye Qwest

my head canon is that these players are using staff as eHarmony. "I had sex with a werebat! ARE WE MEANT TO BE?"

"Yes, you should immediately add them to your Discord and harass them if they are in a room with someone else IC"

Crawfish

@kanye-qwest said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

my head canon is that these players are using staff as eHarmony. "I had sex with a werebat! ARE WE MEANT TO BE?"

"Yes, you should immediately add them to your Discord and harass them if they are in a room with someone else IC"

I feel like I'm not allowed to love this as much as I do.

Kay

@kanye-qwest said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

my head canon is that these players are using staff as eHarmony. "I had sex with a werebat! ARE WE MEANT TO BE?"

"Yes, you should immediately add them to your Discord and harass them if they are in a room with someone else IC"

Batman

Killer Klown

There's also this issue that Harmony in 2e is way different a stat than it was in 1e. It's actually far removed from any other Morality system in the game thus far (though the jury's still out on how they're going to handle Clarity).
Basically, in every other Morality higher was 'good', lower was 'bad'. In Werewolf it's between two extremes - how close you are to your human side, and how close you are to your spirit side. Either extreme provides benefits, but also incurs penalties - so optimally you want to keep it in the 4-5-6 range. That means a hell of a lot of consciously breaking to one side or the other just to maintain the balance.

Ganymede

@killer-klown said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

There's also this issue that Harmony in 2e is way different a stat than it was in 1e.

Frankly, I found it better suited for the game.

Humans struggle against going insane. Vampires struggle against their Beast. Werewolves are both insane (by mortal standards) and beasts, so a degenerative system didn't make sense.

Killer Klown

I fully agree; the new Harmony system makes a lot of sense, and plays into the idea that werewolves have a more primal morality than even Vampires might. Vamps struggle to hold on to their humanity and see their Beast as a negative thing; Werewolves don't (ideally) see either side as more morally correct than the other.

Derp

@ganymede

In the 2e tabletop I was running, I basically retooled Wisdom to work similar to harmony. High Wisdom, cool. You remember that people are people, and the world is not meant to be trifled with... buuuut you also don't see some of the underlying flows of magic, and it is harder for you. To be -good- at magic, you have to dive in... but then you risk forgetting that those rules and formulas you are tinkering with are lives, and people, etc. You have to give up caring for the status quo and natural order if you want power. And you need power if you're going to survive. Where do you draw the line?

To me, it made it make more sense than the book version, which has always felt lame and toothless to me. I would probably do all the games like that, if I had a choice. Ride the line between the basass world of awesome things you know is out there, and the world full of things you love just the way they are. How much are you willing to sacrifice to save the rest of it?