The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]
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@Jennkryst said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
Necros because Fantasy Flight announced a beta test for their upcoming L5R RPG. I'll hop on the forums over there, request official authorization for MU-ing, etc etc. We'll see how zany the dice are for this one.
No. No. I liked L5R the way it was.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Ganymede said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
@Jennkryst said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
Necros because Fantasy Flight announced a beta test for their upcoming L5R RPG. I'll hop on the forums over there, request official authorization for MU-ing, etc etc. We'll see how zany the dice are for this one.
No. No. I liked L5R the way it was.
Then make a game the way it was. I'll be over here, with the fancy Theno dice code I lost, possibly throwing money at him to code new shiney things!
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@Jennkryst said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
Then make a game the way it was. I'll be over here, with the fancy Theno dice code I lost, possibly throwing money at him to code new shiney things!
I meant that I liked L5R under its current publishers, with its current system. I play it TT.
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I am aware of the FFG stuff, and keeping my eyes on the progress (although they definitely seem more interested in the LCG than the RPG). I do like the new storyline from the LCG (an alternate history that diverges at a successful Scorpion Clan coup), so I'm hopeful. However, seeing a lot of the issues I had with Edge of the Empire, if their take on L5R uses similar mechanics I don't know that it will be a great fit (either for me personally, or for MUing).
That said, AEG's L5R 4th ed is quite complete (it had a huge run of splat books covering... pretty much anything you'd ever need, I think) and quite sufficient to run the game, including one in any timeline you like, including the new LCG one. Many of the older books are also still usable, particularly setting books (Shout out to City of Lies) and adventures, since converting among editions is usually pretty trivial. It being unsupported really has no impact on that, any more than people have had to stop playing their favorite D&D edition because newer ones came around.
I'd also add that L5R is really a game about the setting and the lore. If you love that, the system side of things is probably secondary. But this also circles back to my old game and why it failed, which had a lot to do with lack of familiarity in the setting and difficulty among new players in figuring out how to RP in it. Honor and the particulars of Rokugani etiquette are easy things to get wrong and the setting can be pretty punishing when you do (and I even intentionally dialed it down by setting the game in a rowdy Crab port).
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@bored said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
Honor and the particulars of Rokugani etiquette are easy things to get wrong and the setting can be pretty punishing when you do (and I even intentionally dialed it down by setting the game in a rowdy Crab port).
Dirty buggers, they go from port to port.
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LCGs are a huge thing for Fantasy Flight, so it's no surprise they focused on that first. I, for one, am going to splurge and probably buy three of the core sets, partly because stupid sales model is stupid, but also effective, but also because extra tokens and such are nice to have. And we all know that there will be tokens. Because Fantasy Flight.
I'd be down for a 4e game, depending on how bonkers the FFG rules are. The rest... tricksy.
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I think @bored nailed the problem pretty well.
Bar RP/etc is a pretty different beast when everybody is supposed to be some honorable samurai guy and not "generic modern 25 year old" or even "generic medieval princess/knight".
I remember having tons of fun with the adventures and stuff on KK, but the 'sit around RP' was generally pretty uninspired. I won't claim to have been amazing myself, as that was my only experience with L5R, so I wasn't exactly a lore-guru.
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The trick to sitting around RP is that, if you are a courtier, yes, the majority of what you do IS sit around RP, but at the same time, it is specifically a means to an end, rather than just idly filling time at the sake house. And if you're NOT a courtier, by all means, go speak to the Scorpion Clan member over there and just spill secrets. No big deal.
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Please make an L5R game happen. I dunno who I have to blow, but I will.
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I made an account on FFG forums specifically to ask about licensing stuff (like how CoD specifically calls out online games/MUSHes to be allowed now), and also heard the siren song of people griping about how SWORDS ARE THE BEST, so I had to go shout 'FUCK YOU, SPEARS ARE SUPERIOR' (fortunately, someone beat me to it)
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As one of the folks who played consistently at l5r mush, I'd be happy to see something using that system, even if it is this 7th sea thig and all that fun jazz.
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As for the issues with the setting... I think it's one of those things where a lot of the formality could be excised from it without sacrificing the spirit of what the game is. I'd point to samurai based media... especially fantasy based samurai media... the characters depicted aren't so stringent with the rules and do not act very differently than most people do casually. This could alleviate some of the issues with teahouse RP and the like.
Basically, just keep people from getting too nitpicky over people people'ing.
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I kiiiiind of want to set a game in the Broken Wave City, because Mantis/Phoenix DRAMA, but also because the island itself is hella spooky and plenty of stuff for Bushi and Shugenja to deal with. Also: BOATS. ALL THE BOATS.
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On a semi-related note and because I can't be bothered to start a new thread.
They might also be publishing the beta rules somewhere else if you don't want to do some annoying sign up thing too. Probably easy to get. Time to see where FF takes 5th edition I guess.
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@D-bone Aaaaaaand Beta is up
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/4/honor-and-adventure-await/
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Nice!
My first thought is that while it shares some similarities to the EotE system as I mentioned it might, they really seem to distinguish the L5R flavor nicely. Variously:
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I really like that they've somewhat divorced rings from stats (or made stats implied inside of them) with all of them touching all areas of the game. It's a lot more philosophical than the prior systems where rings were locked to certain stats. Reinforced by the fact that you can use any Ring for basic attacks in combat.
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it looks like they've dropped difficulty dice, so rolls are simpler to assemble and the game should have less of the nutty variance that plauged EotE.
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They use the dual symbols well, and have come up with a nice way of keeping explosions while also putting some limits/drawbacks on them.
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It seems like Opportunity will have a lot more structured usages compared to Advantage in EotE, which was the biggest problem with it: you'd end up with so much it became repetitive to use.
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Clan, Family, School all still seems accounted for in traditional fashion. Characters also seem like they have a broader variety of options, as there's some crossover in Kata, Invocations (shugenja spells), Shuji (courtier kata), etc.
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20 questions and Heritage tables!
Sadly, the methodology of assembling pools and whatnot seems like it would make it a poor fit for MUing.
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@bored Yeah. This being the beta, though, some issues may be fixed. If not, house rules. Like the pesky xp rabble rabble.
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I knew it, fantasy flight was going to use some proprietary dice shit. Hate that so much.
Also on a methdological level- the goals of the game seem to contradict one another.
Honor, Glory, Status etc is no longer a set of ranks out of ten, but now out of 100, with accompanying flaws/perks. So more complicated. Everything else because of the new dice system appears incredibly simplified.
Also ranking up your school, (which in 4th edition you just did by spending xp in general if I recall correctly) requires you to spend xp only on your school (aka class) related abilities only. No ore Courtiers taking kenjutsu to level up. I already see this having to be changed.
So for examlple.. take the Hida Defender- a Bushi warrior class. Look at what ranks you are and are not allowed to take certain skills to level up. Develop a strategy now to game the system to level up as a fast as possible while also making the most hyper optimized character while still leveling up. For example, level up Martial skills as much as possible in first and second ranks, because you can't for some reason level them up in 3rd or 4th. Dump stat skills like Command, Tactics, meditation and Theology becuase taking them in cgen doesn't count towards leveling up, so you can buy them on the cheap to help kick you over the edge to level up.
Why is this a game that is about narrative focus with one of the most obviously abusable level up designs I've ever seen that also clearly destroys character variety. No more Samurai with deception or persuasion skills, becuase lul fuck you. This system also is meant to replace the system where-in every school gets a set of unique abilities. Instead of getting 5 abilities, you get one. (which in turn explains why characters can only level up certain ways- because all the classes are the same practically)
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@D-bone said in The guy who coded Kishi Kaisei MUX [L5R]:
I knew it, fantasy flight was going to use some proprietary dice shit. Hate that so much.
7th Sea also got rid of the R&K mechanic. Perhaps because it has had issues throughout 4 iterations that, much like Shadowrun 1-3, kept building on itself instead of being fixable, so it was all thrown out in favor of a new approach?
Further, since we're on the topic of dice, I actually really appreciate how the Rings themselves now bring less bang for their buck than proficiency in the skill itself. More success options on the skill die, afterall. The rings are still important, but certainly nowhere near as important as previously, where one spends all their XP on them because of it was a two-fer, extra die AND extra keep.
Honor, Glory, Status etc is no longer a set of ranks out of ten, but now out of 100, with accompanying flaws/perks. So more complicated. Everything else because of the new dice system appears incredibly simplified.
Honor may have operated on a whole-number scale, it is important to point out that Glory and Status went to the first decimal place (granted, only in a <1 capacity for Glory, but Status ranges from a -10 Ninja, to a 0.1 Craftsman, and even goes so high as 9.9 for the Empress), so it is KIND OF like operating on a 100 scale instead of 10s.
Also ranking up your school, (which in 4th edition you just did by spending xp in general if I recall correctly) requires you to spend xp only on your school (aka class) related abilities only. No ore Courtiers taking kenjutsu to level up. I already see this having to be changed.
So for examlple.. take the Hida Defender- a Bushi warrior class. Look at what ranks you are and are not allowed to take certain skills to level up. Develop a strategy now to game the system to level up as a fast as possible while also making the most hyper optimized character while still leveling up. For example, level up Martial skills as much as possible in first and second ranks, because you can't for some reason level them up in 3rd or 4th. Dump stat skills like Command, Tactics, meditation and Theology becuase taking them in cgen doesn't count towards leveling up, so you can buy them on the cheap to help kick you over the edge to level up.
This is indeed an issue; the FFG forums are very active discussing some of this, and this is one of the things going in my review, for sure. On one hand, I can understand it. What does Kenjutsu have to do with being a better courtier? Despite this, I do lean towards agreeing with you in principle.
Why is this a game that is about narrative focus with one of the most obviously abusable level up designs I've ever seen that also clearly destroys character variety. No more Samurai with deception or persuasion skills, becuase lul fuck you. This system also is meant to replace the system where-in every school gets a set of unique abilities. Instead of getting 5 abilities, you get one. (which in turn explains why characters can only level up certain ways- because all the classes are the same practically)
I don't know where they are planning to go with level advancements and advanced school options or any of that. This is literally the free beta to show the basics of the game. Hell, they don't even have all the basic schools in the beta (notably missing to my Scorpion-masked eyes: the Soshi Shugenja and the Bayushi Bushi schools).
I stand by all my previous claims: at worst, Fantasy Flight makes decent games, and I will have some level of fun playing it. What level remains to be seen. WHAT I DO KNOW is that the +dice mechanics are hella easier than FFG SW, so I might be able to backwards engineer the +roll code from Theno, if I can find it again.
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@Jennkryst What I'm getting at with Honor and Glory and Status in is that the way it was originally designed in 4e made fluctuations not really effect day to day mechanics so much. It is theoretically possible, and maybe even probable in a given session to have 3-4 things effect a players honor or glory rankings.
In 4e, at the end of the day, or in the middle of the session you'd recalculate honor totals, and just be done with it.
Here, if you advance or lower, you gain or lose perks in the middle of a session.
Do you gain the same perks? Can you choose which perks you lose? What if you lose honor and then immediately regain some of it, can you choose which of the two perks you want back and gain them in a different order than you lost them?The rating system where you had like honor 1-10ish and then sort of the kept track of seperate honor ranks to determine leveling up or down your honor allowed players some freedom in behaving witout worrying over losing their mechanical benefits.
The goal of the game again seems narrative focus over mechanics. The core themes are Duty, honor, Bushido vs the ID/Self-interest- and basically the game punishes players immediately for doing the ID stuff. Which thematically makes sense, but mechanically adds more paperwork... to a game which again the stated purpose on the surface supposedly is making a mechanically simpler game.
Another big problem is that Honor always did kind of exist in this nebelous place where it is both alignment but also sort of social perceptions of your status/alignment. Glory used to be the equivilant of Street Cred in shadowrun, or renown like equivlants in other games.
Now Glory is public honor + street cred.. which makes absolutley no sense, while honor is personal alignment. As a Scorpion player, this is inherently problematic given that Scorpions give a middle finger to honor in private and honor is now personal alignment instead of public so now all scorpion players are just straight up evil in this alignment system unless they basically do nothing except their duty 24/7. Enjoy being constantly with 1-2 perk penalties for roleplaying your character correctly.
