Jun 19, 2015, 5:40 PM
@EmmahSue I don't know you but I want to marry you
Getting Involved (and getting other people involved)
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@Tempest said:
The majority of MU-players (at least on WoD-esque games) are not the sort who just want bar-and-relationship-rp.
This bears repeating. People will do the bar-and-relationship RP, yes. Some of us even enjoy the purely social events. But most folks would at any given time be way happier to be playing something more substantial. They're just not sure of how to get it, and you cannot teach an introvert to be an extrovert. You can teach them to mimic it, but it's never going to be entirely comfortable.
People who have every reason to be involved in an ongoing plot (and often, actively have people trying to engage them), yet do nothing and complain about there being nothing going on, have to be one of the more annoying subsets of players.
Most of the time when this is going on, what they're trying to say is 'I don't know how to get involved, and I know you think you've thrown me clues, but I don't see what I'm supposed to be doing with them and now I'm getting frustrated.' They don't/can't articulate it that clearly, and yes, absolutely, it's annoying as fuck. They aren't (usually) being as much of an ass as they're coming off as, they truly don't get it.
As players, there's been such a stigma about OOC influencing IC for so long that it's spilled over to things it shouldn't. 'I can't tell you how to get involved in the plot, you have to find out IC RP with people' is not healthy for any game, and it's not helping anyone's fun. But we do it and do it and do it again.
Nobody is actively responsible for anyone else's fun. It's not my fault if people are bored because I go away for a week. Really, yes, they should be making their own fun, but at the same time, if I can take ten minutes to give them a week's worth of stuff to RP about, I should.
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(Disclaimer : Yes, a lot of this is like common sense, but I'm going to say it anyways.)
As we had kind of gone over in the other thread, politics is an easy filler usually for creating easy hooks/reasons for people to get involved or for you get other people involved, but (again) that of course with all of its own drama/problems/extra work for staff/etc.
Though, even on games with political stuff ongoing, that can be difficult to get into if there's not actually any room for change/fluidity to the system. Knowing nothing is going to change because staff doesn't want to deal with a change in the setting's power structure, or because a certain player/clique has a deathgrip, or whatever the reason might be, takes some of the fun out of plotting.
Of course the more sandboxy games tend to be where people would have difficulty getting involved.in stuff, but one thing I'm guilty of myself and I see people do all the time, is going into a game like that and making something that has very little reason to be involved with the characters who already exist, and then finding they don't have much to do with the character and moving on to other games because they think that one is boring or making a new char.
If you show up somewhere and +census says there's 5+ of faction X and faction Y and only 1 member of faction Z, you might want to rethink making your character for faction Z unless you're the sort who can get your own ball rolling (or are apping in with friends).
If you're not the make-your-own-fun sort, do yourself (and the game a favor) and app into something with an active faction, or something with leanings towards the faction. Usually, people will gladly welcome you and try to get you involved. Find somebody who has a listing on the wanted board and talk to them about coming in with some connections.
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RfK's political system fits the vampire game, and it generates its own RP to a certain extent. Even if nothing's apparently happening, a PC can modify their territory, or another's, or get favors to be used later, and so on. There's something to do because the mechanics for generating your own reasons to RP with others exist.
Contrast this with most other games, and you simply must have players or staff generating that activity. This can be done many ways, such as: (1) asking to RP with others; (2) inviting others to RP with you and/or others; (3) forming social groups; (4) running plots; (5) participating in plots; (6) acting on bits of IC information given to you; and (7) referring people IC or OOC to other people that can assist them or RP with them.
I did not try as hard as I could on Reno to do this. For about a week, every time I came on, I loudly announced I would run things or RP with people. Startlingly few took that invitation.
So, I am doing something similar on Eldritch, and threw out the ID of some of my old and current alts, and my handle here. My hope is that I can get some activity going. But when the overwhelming majority of players are loitering in OOC areas, history tells me that they are of a passive nature when it comes to RP.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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I will admit this may be a flaw on my part, but personally, I'm always leery of random 'I will run stuff!' things from people (players on the game, not staff) I don't know/haven't played with before, because you have no idea what you are possibly jumping into. I imagine that might be the reason for a low level of reaction.
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@Tempest said:
I will admit this may be a flaw on my part, but personally, I'm always leery of random 'I will run stuff!' things from people (players on the game, not staff) I don't know/haven't played with before, because you have no idea what you are possibly jumping into. I imagine that might be the reason for a low level of reaction.
This is why I put up the IDs of my old and current alts, and my MUSoapbox name with my post. To get further back into history, I staffed as Inferno @ St. Pete's, Wagner @ HM, Zealot @ Denver By Night, and CyberSix @ Due Rewards.
Without sounding too parental, if you don't give it a shot, then you'll never know. If only one person shows up, I've done my part, and I will make that person's time as fun as I can.
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If people are leery, they could always talk to you about what to expect beforehand. Also, if you're in something and you're finding it's not your cup of tea? Reserve the right to walk away, no harm, no foul. You could make that a caveat before the scene starts.
As for generating RP, it's not at all hard to do. Start a playgroup, but have patience. This is what I see most often, when I hear the 'but there's no RP/I can't get involved' line. People without the patience to build something substantial. ie. It took me awhile to get the ARU/Fire Station playgroups up and active on TR.
Also, accept that there's going to be people/groups who don't want to play with you, for whatever reason. I have struggled with this myself. Often times people see one playgroup and think 'Oh, I want to be part of that! That looks awesome!' but the people in that playgroup, again, for whatever reason, don't want to play with that person. Move on. Don't destroy yourself trying to get 'in'. Most times (not always, but often) you'll just end up bitter and drama-ful. Find something else. There's almost always a something else, if you 'lower your standards' (not sure if that's the right phrasing but it's as close as I can come to what I mean).
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I've always had a hard time getting involved. I'm definitely one of those introvert types that gets a pretty decent dose of anxiety even talking on a public channel, let alone asking for RP. Especially in larger places where it seems cliques have already been established. That said, I've made an active effort, (when I'm legitimately able to do so - ie: not at work just chilling, or have more than an hour or two to do something) to break out of my little introverted box lately instead of letting my friends doing it for me, like a wuss. I've noticed that a lot of the time, when people ask for rp, if others can't, but are hanging around ooc, they just say nothing. Patience goes a long way for those people asking, but even for those others just hanging around, a "no, sorry, can't today", actually goes a long way toward curbing some of the introverted frustration.
I've been playing on Reno recently and I've been pretty pleased with things so far. I think some of the people who gave up recently missed the new influx of players. It would be nice to get some STs back there. The few events I joined, ended up not happening for various reasons, which was kind of frustrating. I'd like to run some stuff, myself, but still working up the courage to handle all that
Anyway....I kind of forgot where I was going with this (obviously). I'm groggy and should shut up now.
TL:DR - Patience is a virtue, on all accounts. -
A lot of people don't know what they want ("anyone up to meet for RP?"). You can make them an offer ("sure, were?" "I dunno") but unless it's very specific they won't know either. Sometimes they'll ask for RP, you will make yourself available, and they will change their minds.
But as for bar-and-relationship RP, I don't think it's what people don't want, it's just the obvious thing you can do when nothing else is happening. No spirits around? No Blood? No politics, Wounds, strange artifacts needing figuring out? Okay, let's find a date.
Personally, the idea of meeting up at a place and RPing about nothing is roughly as desirable as logging out - the only qualifier is that maybe I'll run into someone good this time around, instead of struggling to figure out any hooks at all to squeeze something out of the scene than generic poses.
I'm getting tiresome at this point, I know, but the best way to engage people is to throw something on +events and go from there.
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Just don't be that person who goes "Wanna RP?!" "I want RP!" "Let's RP!" And then I answer the call and show up and then you drop it:
"So what're we doing?"
You will go on the list of people I just don't respond to anymore.
But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?
-Mark Twain -
Every player is a ST. If I could beat that into the heads of the entire community, I would. That means if you show up for bar-play and things get boring, someone (anyone. everyone.) should pose a jittery mf'er coming in to steal the cash out of the register. If you don't want to go dangerous, then a bunch of con-artists come in, two of them pretend to get engaged, and the third guy is stealing wallets while everyone watches the lovey-dovey duo. Something!
We are all STs, not just players, every single time we're playing. The world is full of things going on. Describe them in your pose and when someone reacts, keep it going.
ES
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@EmmahSue said:
Every player is a ST. If I could beat that into the heads of the entire community, I would. That means if you show up for bar-play and things get boring, someone (anyone. everyone.) should pose a jittery mf'er coming in to steal the cash out of the register. If you don't want to go dangerous, then a bunch of con-artists come in, two of them pretend to get engaged, and the third guy is stealing wallets while everyone watches the lovey-dovey duo. Something!
We are all STs, not just players, every single time we're playing. The world is full of things going on. Describe them in your pose and when someone reacts, keep it going.
ES
You are a genius, ES, but I have a feeling so many people would get terribly offended if that were to happen to them.
"What right do you have to make this situation dangerous?" they could say. Add that to the fact that many games would have staffers smack that down, and that even more players are unwilling or too scared to do so, and it sucks.
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@EmmahSue I don't know you but I want to marry you
Then when it's all over and the rest of you are ready for Dead Animal Pickup, I'm gonna go balls deep into Dahl. But only because she asked me to. Sweet-like. - Riddick (2013)
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People just need to take a degree of ownership for their own fun. And the "WANNA RP?" on channel, followed by awkward silence when I respond, "Sure, where to? Anything in particular?" is not really doing that. It's fine to be passive sometimes, we all are, but if too many people are that, all the time, that's where the, "Nothing interesting is happening" comes from.
I don't even mind generic bar scenes if they're generic bar scenes where the characters do somewhat amusing meet-and-greet things. Get drunk, play trivia games, bitch about the asshole playing a rotation of the same 80s song in the juke box, hit on NPCs stupidly. Whatever, something. It's astounding to me how often characters don't even do the somewhat entertaining things we do in real life at bars in these BarP scenes.
Or, as @EmmahSue says better, we're all in theory playing something we find fun. Do something fun.
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Also am I the only one who feels really guilty when someone is asking for RP, and for whatever reason, I am not able to do so? I am usually online while at work just to chat and it breaks my shriveled black heart,
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@EmmahSue This is why ES is on my list of people to always play with.
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@ThatOneDude said:
@EmmahSue I don't know you but I want to marry you
Pfft. If she is ever free, /I/ want to marry her.
Also, what @EmmahSue said.
As far as introverts and asking for RP...I know. Really, really, I know. I have a couple of really shy friends that have opened up enough to me to tell me that they're shy, and I do a lot of facilitating RP for them. It's just what I do. Anywhere I am, on anyone, wave a flag at me and if I can help, I will. It makes me happy to arrange RP for others.
ETA: @tragedyjones - I feel the same way. If someone asks for play and I'm not available to at least help out somehow, I feel like a jerk.
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Why the fear, though? What could staff do, really? Sure, they might go 'nu-uh' or 'stop that random RP you guys' but then at least you'd know they're assholes. Sitting there afraid is... I won't say silly. That'd be rude. But I'm kinda thinking it really hard, unfortunately. Terrible person, you may all hate me now instead!
ES
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@EmmahSue said:
Why the fear, though? What could staff do, really? Sure, they might go 'nu-uh' or 'stop that random RP you guys' but then at least you'd know they're assholes. Sitting there afraid is... I won't say silly. That'd be rude. But I'm kinda thinking it really hard, unfortunately. Terrible person, you may all hate me now instead!
ES
It is silly. The fear is unfounded but prevalent, I have noticed. There commonly exists a mindset of asking permission instead of forgiveness. I err on the side of forgiveness. I make up my own permission.
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It doesn't make sense but it does exist. My only issue with player-created RP is when something SRS BNS happens and it either breaks theme or established continuity, or otherwise ends up being a big deal.
Like when this asshole @tragedyjones had a derelict sub of Nazi ghosts and animated corpses arrive on shore one time..
I'm a rodeo clown.
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But we still ran with it, TJ!
A good staff will run with whatever happens. Hell, giving a scene the Dallas-treatment is better than retconn or outright denial, and even 'it was all a dream' can be spun from there into a larger plot so people don't treat it as a one-off.
ES