@Rince said:

Something must've gotten lost in translation. No disdain intended at all. Mostly I was just trying to unify communications from discussions on two different MU*s, plus this forum, into one place (ie the Github issue list), but also trying to ensure you didn't feel like I was trying to tell you how to run your own project, if that's what you were doing.

Sincere apologies. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help or clear up intent.

I feel like I'm going to burst into waterworks, because you saw the disconnect based on pure textual perceptions sans tone and said a sincere apology.

Thank for that, you don't know how much it means when I've seen so many players shit on each other and me suffocating at the bottom of the pile after trying to help so many with what limited power I had. Your apology is accepted and I apologize in return if my reply was scathing. I've gone through a lot in the MU* community and this is me trying to help based on what I've endured and helping with what I am really good at. So thank you for showing you care for the community by showing empathetic wisdom and maturity when, in the grand scheme of things, you didn't have to.

@Sponge said:

An alternative proposal: Federation.

That was my idea when I showed my current efforts. I personally am not trying to create the end-all site. Mine is very specific but it ties in greatly to MU*.

There can be a website, a single one-page that all affiliated/joined sites can add to. This would be unlike the Mudconnector in that any admin can go and add or delete their link at will. All admins can be like an advisory council and in turn this 'hub' can be the place where all admins can congregate to help gently coordinate things if need be. Not heavily but at least keep others in the know.

One thing I've learned is we need some kind of basic structure. I don't care if it sounds draconian or 'too serious' to some. Having structure is what allowed me to truly help other players with what I could. It's a system that hasn't let me down yet.

I am very open to collaborating on the subject.

EDIT: I have an idea to this federation concept. That is, have this main site's source code hosted on GitHub. A lot of positives stem from hosting via GitHub:

1. The website is open source. No smoke or mirrors. Everything edited is documented and can also be reverted. Changes made are seen, issues are discussed and there's a good level of transparency, just enough.

2. It won't disappear if the current host suddenly disconnects. This is how I felt with WORA when someone told me it went under. The code board was indispensable but not even Wayback could archive it since a login was required to view. If the source is always on GitHub then someone else can easily take it and sync it somewhere else. Where it is hosted for public consumption really has no serious bearing.

3. It's all static files so it's easier to load and easier to maintain and easier with security. Especially if a CDN was involved eventually so anyone, no matter their geo-location, could readily access it. (It also helps with google pagerank; that's one key to getting proper 'exposure' out in the online-wild.)

As for the tech to do this, I already have in mind how to do it. That way we aren't devastated by some third-party software and their bugs or lack of updates. It's just html files with some Javascript thrown in to make some parts dynamic. It allows nearly anyone with very basic html knowledge to understand and edit.

The ownership would be the group of admins with their sites and games, the ones who work for this the most. That way PRs have checks and balances.

The biggest is being able to agree with the basic system of how this all runs.

Also, my wording may sound 'definitive' but it's only my inner Bard showing through. This is just one idea of many out there.

One of the best concepts is what @Sponge mentioned, where not only are various MU* sites a federation but also the players. Being able to have a hub-profile, a kind of MU* social media profile, that allowed them to keep all their MU* activity in one spot.

MU* is a medium and should be treated that way to keep the community going. We all use MU* for many different types of games, stories, themes, ect. Through that a lot of core concepts shine, stand out and need to be addressed. musoapbox is a great start.

@Rince

I had an extensive post written out for the issues list. I'm glad I held off on posting it.

You are correct that what I plan to do isn't the exact same as what you plan to do. Mine has to do with MU* as well or I wouldn't have mentioned it. Since the original idea is collaboration I wanted share my thoughts on the idea of such an undertaking as you and others have done before you in this topic and see if I could add something or have a firm link to whatever site you wish to create.

The obvious disdain you have in reply to my post for whatever reason was heard loud and clear too. However, in the end it only validates my reasons to do what I want to do and build what I want to build to help the MU* community and the general writing/RP community. SSDD.

Thanks for the encouragement. And the same to you as well.

@Bobotron said:

You could feasibly (it's what I'm aiming for with TheatreMUSH and Masquerade) run a game that pushes towards the end of the world with a finite lifespan and play up that angle to give people the opportunity and impetus of cooperation.

"Preventing apocalypse" plot? Sounds about right, if I read your explanation correctly. Nothing like mutual adversity to bring the gang together. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." (Meta quote, whoo.)

@Bobotron

I think the concept of 'multiple cities/settings' can work, but the problem you're going to run into is critical mass, and reasons for Pack A to help Pack B; I have no idea how much cross-pack assistance and posturing and stuff like that happens in Apocalypse. But you'll have to rely on cross-pack assistance and play in order to have the potential stuff going on all over the place.

Aye, that critical mass can happen in a blink if there isn't some extra special attention to scaling. Light touch in others, heavy-handed "no we are not making more rooms" reminders in others.

What you mention sounds like TP/plot material. In that case perhaps it might be an idea for these packs/areas to have players that collaborate with one another to instigate these cross-pack instances in a wider range.

The TF and Megaman MU*s I come from do this, but it works because there's always a way to transport around easily (teleporters, flying, whatever) and there's always reason for Group A to assist other people from Group A against Group B. That's where you're going to have to figure out what to do and what you want to push, otherwise RP might focus on one sole area to the exception of others (or worse, people will not want to travel around).

Agreed. Not simply to have the areas and rooms but give in-game reason too. Via plot at the very least. This would take some storytellers. I am surmising more than the usual and have a bboard set up to facilitate it between groups.

@The-Tree-of-Woe Even better, sounds like it. That would work with teleport areas yes? I'm not familiar with Werewolf so please forgive my ignorance. I'm interested in the format and how it can be discussed so it can apply to your theme and maybe others.

If that specific system/theme doesn't need a bunch of 'in betweens' then that makes it, by nature, less congested. The rest is planning out the grids.

What I like about this idea is it keeps groups of similar characters together by IC mechanics (ie geographical location). But only by similarities. Because as you said, it only takes a hop, skip and jump to visit someone in the next state or even country (by IC mechanics anyway).

I'd be interested in seeing this in practice. I agree that the 'one town/city' format used for so long does get claustrophobic. It also prevents more defined areas, such as for varied things like local dialect and culture that can be a part of a character's background and shape them.

I think the key is being able to do it where it's not congested. Separate areas, 'thoroughfares' to connect them all. So it's possibly like having a bunch of stories/games within one single MU, but it's all under one cohesive theme.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

@Arkandel said:

Unless consent is required at every level, including losing contested but non-lethal/permanently changing rolls, a player could still try to push those things through. Hell, look at Shang, it happens there routinely right?

Sure does. Staff-approved too. That was how I was removed without consent, without even a simple heads-up OOCly. I could write a lot about it and why that game is truly toxic but that's just rehashing what everyone here already knows.

I can tell you from experience that it's ultimately up to the staff to make sure consent and non-consent 'works'. @Arkandel, your notion to keep rules simple such as 'don't be a dick' is spot on. Or, as I used for my online community:

Any kind of behavior that threatens the welcoming, cohesive and coherent mentality and atmosphere of the community will be dealt with according to severity of the disruption. Repeated behaviors that attempt again will result in expulsion.

There. That's it. "Don't be a dick" put down in nice firm 'legalese'. Human nature manifests itself in different details for eons. Attempting to catalog those details is futile and creates loopholes: "but it's not in the list of stuff I can't do!" That means the only defense a player has is their action was not illegal to express under the current listed regulations. However, it's clear the root: willful "antagonization" of the community. Transparency allows players to decide if that is the case. It's looking at the bigger picture to the result not so much the actions themselves.

/r/InternetIsBeautiful is my go-to for awesome websites. Mostly for web tools, unique free services and toys to pass the time in between poses/posts.

Found rainymood from there. Been using it ever since to destress.

@Rince All of that sounds great! I agree with the licensing most of all because I've had that bite me in the butt when I didn't have something like that for my forum.

I will be crafting my own TOS and Privacy Policy for weavewordswith.me. If you want I would be willing to donate a copy to you for your endeavor if you don't have a source for these yet. You can fine-tune it for MUCommunity's needs. I research this heavily; online communities are my shtick and I love knowing what makes them tick, and what keeps them safe, sane and secure (mostly). I do my best to catch all possible loopholes. While I Am Not A Lawyer, it's a start. No TOS/PP available shows zero due diligence which is way worse than a Layman writing his own TOS to do some butt covering.

I just starred that linked repository. I'll give it a thorough read in short order!

As for the Federation Idea, no worries on that just yet. When some sites start cropping up (like yours and mine and any others) we can all regroup and see what we may all agree on to begin that second huge step.

@Cobaltasaurus

I had a similar idea but my idea entailed to do it off-mu* and on a browser web app connected to the mu* database.

Alts are doled out by specific permissions or by specific preemptive barriers.

This idea I have would also prevent players from losing their alts. This proposed web app console would have a full list of all alts they have and allow them to delete. If not from the web then if they nuke in-game it then reflects this off-mu* master list.

@Rince said:

Something must've gotten lost in translation. No disdain intended at all. Mostly I was just trying to unify communications from discussions on two different MU*s, plus this forum, into one place (ie the Github issue list), but also trying to ensure you didn't feel like I was trying to tell you how to run your own project, if that's what you were doing.

Sincere apologies. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help or clear up intent.

I feel like I'm going to burst into waterworks, because you saw the disconnect based on pure textual perceptions sans tone and said a sincere apology.

Thank for that, you don't know how much it means when I've seen so many players shit on each other and me suffocating at the bottom of the pile after trying to help so many with what limited power I had. Your apology is accepted and I apologize in return if my reply was scathing. I've gone through a lot in the MU* community and this is me trying to help based on what I've endured and helping with what I am really good at. So thank you for showing you care for the community by showing empathetic wisdom and maturity when, in the grand scheme of things, you didn't have to.

@Sponge said:

An alternative proposal: Federation.

That was my idea when I showed my current efforts. I personally am not trying to create the end-all site. Mine is very specific but it ties in greatly to MU*.

There can be a website, a single one-page that all affiliated/joined sites can add to. This would be unlike the Mudconnector in that any admin can go and add or delete their link at will. All admins can be like an advisory council and in turn this 'hub' can be the place where all admins can congregate to help gently coordinate things if need be. Not heavily but at least keep others in the know.

One thing I've learned is we need some kind of basic structure. I don't care if it sounds draconian or 'too serious' to some. Having structure is what allowed me to truly help other players with what I could. It's a system that hasn't let me down yet.

I am very open to collaborating on the subject.

EDIT: I have an idea to this federation concept. That is, have this main site's source code hosted on GitHub. A lot of positives stem from hosting via GitHub:

1. The website is open source. No smoke or mirrors. Everything edited is documented and can also be reverted. Changes made are seen, issues are discussed and there's a good level of transparency, just enough.

2. It won't disappear if the current host suddenly disconnects. This is how I felt with WORA when someone told me it went under. The code board was indispensable but not even Wayback could archive it since a login was required to view. If the source is always on GitHub then someone else can easily take it and sync it somewhere else. Where it is hosted for public consumption really has no serious bearing.

3. It's all static files so it's easier to load and easier to maintain and easier with security. Especially if a CDN was involved eventually so anyone, no matter their geo-location, could readily access it. (It also helps with google pagerank; that's one key to getting proper 'exposure' out in the online-wild.)

As for the tech to do this, I already have in mind how to do it. That way we aren't devastated by some third-party software and their bugs or lack of updates. It's just html files with some Javascript thrown in to make some parts dynamic. It allows nearly anyone with very basic html knowledge to understand and edit.

The ownership would be the group of admins with their sites and games, the ones who work for this the most. That way PRs have checks and balances.

The biggest is being able to agree with the basic system of how this all runs.

Also, my wording may sound 'definitive' but it's only my inner Bard showing through. This is just one idea of many out there.

One of the best concepts is what @Sponge mentioned, where not only are various MU* sites a federation but also the players. Being able to have a hub-profile, a kind of MU* social media profile, that allowed them to keep all their MU* activity in one spot.

MU* is a medium and should be treated that way to keep the community going. We all use MU* for many different types of games, stories, themes, ect. Through that a lot of core concepts shine, stand out and need to be addressed. musoapbox is a great start.

@Rince

I had an extensive post written out for the issues list. I'm glad I held off on posting it.

You are correct that what I plan to do isn't the exact same as what you plan to do. Mine has to do with MU* as well or I wouldn't have mentioned it. Since the original idea is collaboration I wanted share my thoughts on the idea of such an undertaking as you and others have done before you in this topic and see if I could add something or have a firm link to whatever site you wish to create.

The obvious disdain you have in reply to my post for whatever reason was heard loud and clear too. However, in the end it only validates my reasons to do what I want to do and build what I want to build to help the MU* community and the general writing/RP community. SSDD.

Thanks for the encouragement. And the same to you as well.