How much Code is too much Code?
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Has any coder tracked what code gets use, and what doesn't? I am fairly sure who or where etc gets a ton, but what about +hangouts, or +help, or +cookie?
I have a waggish sense of humor.
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Phone code that makes you remember fake phone numbers
I like phone/text code where I can just use the char object name and move one. But a few versions of the code actually make you use a phone number. That would have been fine in the 90s but I don't remember real phone numbers anymore having me try to for a game just means any use of the phone code is preceded by me paging the person I want to call with, "Hey what was your IC phone number again?" -
@misadventure said in How much Code is too much Code?:
Has any coder tracked what code gets use, and what doesn't? I am fairly sure who or where etc gets a ton, but what about +hangouts, or +help, or +cookie?
I've never done elaborate metrics, but most of it I think is pretty obvious. Weekly cookie tallies, seeing people port into scenes using 'meetme', seeing events posted or people claimed off the roster... very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
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@faraday said in How much Code is too much Code?:
very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
No, but you might move it off game. I'd actually be super interested in how many people do help/detail on Ares to get the full file, for example, vs following the web link.
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@tat said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@faraday said in How much Code is too much Code?:
very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
No, but you might move it off game. I'd actually be super interested in how many people do help/detail on Ares to get the full file, for example, vs following the web link.
HA! @faraday actually made a similar inquiry yesterday on BSU directly. To see how helpful help/detail is (truncated vs. full). I actually do not follow the web links often, but as I said in my reply to her:
the blurb in the truncated is often useful (if I had more free time, I could probably take inventory of which ones I think are missing commands), but there are some I reference help/detail more and when I'm ST'ing, I definitely keep the web help open.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@auspice Yeah, in my experience I LOVE the brief code syntax, but sometimes (especially as I'm learning Ares), I wish those snippets were fuller/better at pointing you to the rest of the related code syntax.
I never follow web links because I'm old and still using SimpleMU, but I can envision myself finally moving to Potato because of them. I DO use the web help frequently.
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When I'm using 'help' at all it's for quickie command reference of something I've gotten wrong/a few keystrokes off. So I generally just use help/detail. I read the news files in full on the web for deeper/longer reads, but I look at the ways I utilize game files vs web files as pretty different.
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@tat said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@faraday said in How much Code is too much Code?:
very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
No, but you might move it off game. I'd actually be super interested in how many people do help/detail on Ares to get the full file, for example, vs following the web link.
I've seen too many people on the forum express a preference for having all the information on the game versus having to look at the website for something. Given that, especially on a codebase like Ares where information is shared between the two, there seems to be little reason to make it inaccessible on the game.
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@tat said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@faraday said in How much Code is too much Code?:
very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
No, but you might move it off game. I'd actually be super interested in how many people do help/detail on Ares to get the full file, for example, vs following the web link.
She and I had a lively debate about this kind of recently. I am too tooled to looking for the help on the game, and would resent not even having a link, or even having a link pushing me out of the client.
She told me I was being silly.
I bet she has it in game for players like me. I mean, it’s not perfect but at least it’s easier to browse than whatever train wreck style Arx has going on.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@thenomain said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@tat said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@faraday said in How much Code is too much Code?:
very little code is invisible. (Help being one example that is... but, well, it's not like you're going to do away with your help system even if nobody happens to be using it very often. I hope :))
No, but you might move it off game. I'd actually be super interested in how many people do help/detail on Ares to get the full file, for example, vs following the web link.
She and I had a lively debate about this kind of recently. I am too tooled to looking for the help on the game, and would resent not even having a link, or even having a link pushing me out of the client.
She told me I was being silly.
I bet she has it in game for players like me. I mean, it’s not perfect but at least it’s easier to browse than whatever train wreck style Arx has going on.
I've gone back and forth with Faraday myself on her attempts to push more things onto the web portal. I struggle really, really hard with adapting to it. I am so very used to doing everything in-game. I'm adapting to some things and not others (when it takes multiple pages / page-loads to do what I can do in a single edit box on a wikimedia/wikidot page, I'm probably going to be cranky, for example).
That said, I look forward to what the combat management page will become. It's not what I want it to be yet, but I'm sure it'll get there in the future.
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This is what killed my interest in 8th Sea.
Anything that forces a player out of the game in order to access information vital to successfully playing that game, is a very bad thing. Save this for when the browser has completely replaced dedicated clients.
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It is a LOT easier for game-makers to put everything on the wiki.
Most people who want to make a MU have no idea how to do code stuff. Even stuff as simple as how to make news/help files.
The 'rah rah wikis are the worst' just seems to be born from some like "back in my day..."
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@rnmissionrun said in How much Code is too much Code?:
This is what killed my interest in 8th Sea.
Anything that forces a player out of the game in order to access information vital to successfully playing that game, is a very bad thing. Save this for when the browser has completely replaced dedicated clients.
I'm sorry it killed your interest! We're doing our best to make the wiki as well-organized as possible.
Like @Tempest said, it's easier to put it on the wiki vs. in a bunch of news files. It also is easier to keep updated, rather than going 'oh no, we updated it in one spot, but not the other!'
Is there a way the 8th Sea wiki could be better organized, maybe? I'd be happy to pass along feedback on that front to Onijegi.
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No experience at 8th sea so not commenting specifically on that game but in general anything that makes me pull up a browse destroys my ability to rp in the scene. Once I opens a non-client window on my computer my brain shifts into OOC mode completely. I know this is more my issue than any games but yeah once i open the window we might has well just summarize the scene because my poses will be detached as all hell.
Note I am not anti wiki at all besides being too lazy to keep my character pages up to date i love them, but I happily use them before and after scene not during.
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@thatguythere said in How much Code is too much Code?:
Note I am not anti wiki at all besides being too lazy to keep my character pages up to date i love them, but I happily use them before and after scene not during.
I think this probably describes most folks. I am known to be a wiki junkie, and I'm like this, too, re: brain switchover.
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@thatguythere said in How much Code is too much Code?:
No experience at 8th sea so not commenting specifically on that game but in general anything that makes me pull up a browse destroys my ability to rp in the scene. Once I opens a non-client window on my computer my brain shifts into OOC mode completely. I know this is more my issue than any games but yeah once i open the window we might has well just summarize the scene because my poses will be detached as all hell.
Note I am not anti wiki at all besides being too lazy to keep my character pages up to date i love them, but I happily use them before and after scene not during.
This is exactly my issue as well.
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I use help/detail more than I do the links to online help. I like having as much as possible in one window.
There are definitely some things on The Eighth Sea wiki that could benefit from being on the MUSH itself (role lists, for instance), and I would love to hear what your suggestions might be, but we should probably handle that discussion elsewhere (I'm good with a Suggestions thread for the game, or private-messages).
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@seraphim73
For me it's not even so much the window thing. I DO absolutely prefer doing actual reading and actual referencing of help files on the wiki or website. If I know I need something, that's where I've got it up. But sometimes, I can't remember the exact command syntax or in some thematic cases the exact spelling, and I want a quick hit (in many cases to copy-paste) that takes 10 seconds and I can insert before a pose. -
I don't always have the luxury of MU*'ing from a pc or laptop. Sometimes it's my kindle, sometimes it's my phone. I absolutely cannot, and willnot, go outside of a game when I am using those devices.
Let alone the pure disconnect from having to switch windows, which, like many others, pulls my focus from the RP and alters it.
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@thenomain said in How much Code is too much Code?:
She told me I was being silly.
I bet she has it in game for players like me. I mean, it’s not perfect but at least it’s easier to browse than whatever train wreck style Arx has going on.Yep. It's 2017. Web is the future. We as a hobby need to move out of the dark ages.
But yes, almost everything is available in-game except the wiki. And that's pretty standard across every game I've been on recently; it's not unique to Ares games.
@three-eyed-crow said in How much Code is too much Code?:
But sometimes, I can't remember the exact command syntax or in some thematic cases the exact spelling, and I want a quick hit (in many cases to copy-paste) that takes 10 seconds and I can insert before a pose.
Doesn't help and help/detail already give you that? I'm a teensy bit confused. They're the same help files.
@tat said in How much Code is too much Code?:
@auspice Yeah, in my experience I LOVE the brief code syntax, but sometimes (especially as I'm learning Ares), I wish those snippets were fuller/better at pointing you to the rest of the related code syntax.
OT here but if you want to PM me I'm curious how you think it can be made fuller/better. There's a line at the bottom "For more help, use help/detail bbs or visit the web portal: http://bsgu.aresmush.com/help/bulletin_boards."
