How to Escape the OOC Game
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@Sunny I took it more to mean "return to the hobby without the negative reputation" rather than "sneak in and break the rules." But yes, if you've actually been banned, or people have grievances against you, better to leave that alone.
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Having seen 'I'm going to pop up on this new game, hide my old infamous identity from anyone who had ever heard of it, and seek out the people who requested I never engage them again on multiple other games to poke at them where I can't see' as something someone admitted to with a childish glee... yeah. That's not someone who has changed for the better, for dang sure.
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OTOH we don't wanna lump in 'Janet said something I didn't like two years ago so fuck that bitch I want to ruin her experience on every game ever' with those people.
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Maybe I'm too quick to think things might not be instantly negative, but I didn't read this as encouraging someone banned to sneak onto a game this way.
We're bad as a collective on giving people even second chances, let alone 3/4/5th. If someone ACTUALLY is able to change then this isn't all a bad list of things to do. If you've changed enough to be able to handle this, then I think they deserve the anonymity.
Just my opinion. -
I think, actually, this community is better with second chances than not. How many times have the legends of horror been allowed back on games? Enough that people freak out on the regular because it has happened.
The key is, you have to actually change if you want the second chance to work, barring the extreme corner case of 'someone really was out to get you for some stupid reason, you did nothing actually wrong, but fell victim to the rumor mill as somebody without a support network of any kind that made you out to be someone you're not'. (This has assuredly happened here and there, too, to various folks.)
Not changing and just going back -- even to another game rather than one that booted you -- to try again with the same shitty behaviors that made you unwelcome elsewhere isn't going to do it. You're just likely to get another place added to the list of places you aren't welcome.
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To follow along with these thoughts: We're not arbiters or managers. Just because a vocal group of us dislike you doesn't mean you "aren't welcome" in the MUing hobby. We're not the be all and end all, and you don't answer to anyone else but yourself.
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The vocal group is what sets the tone though. I can't count the number of times I've heard about someone's poor behavior either second hand or because someone decided to 'warn' me for one reason or another. I do go in with my hackles raised to defend myself in those cases, even if I'm aware it is happening and try to avoid the bias.
Someone of whom a vocal group has spoken out about are more likely to not be able to get into something.
As in all things, this is not a zero-sum game. There are so many shades of gray from the person being a super disgusting creeper who is terrible to the person who legit didn't know but tried to fix when told in this it isn't possible to capture all.
Just a recognition that the voices that speak the loudest get heard and thus listened to the most.
Edit: typos, commas.
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@silverfox The loudest voices have a way of wanting to universally define others in ways that can be damaging and false, yeah. It's one thing for a loud voice to have and voice an opinion and note it as such, and another to proclaim that someone is <this, that, or the other>.
It's a line I wish there was more of an over all effort to make the distinction between the two, no matter who is speaking.
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@silverfox said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
Maybe I'm too quick to think things might not be instantly negative, but I didn't read this as encouraging someone banned to sneak onto a game this way.
We're bad as a collective on giving people even second chances, let alone 3/4/5th. If someone ACTUALLY is able to change then this isn't all a bad list of things to do. If you've changed enough to be able to handle this, then I think they deserve the anonymity.
Just my opinion.^gets the spirit of my post.
It is in the nature of some very aggressive vocal types to want to control who is and isn't welcome on a game where everyone is welcome so long as they behave.
Thus why I think it is also in the best interest of those aggressive vocal types to not be okay with people simply exiting the OOC Game and just being mostly anonymous (but well behaved) roleplayers. Some of these people are fucking you for disagreeing with them Oocly or not bowing to some form of assumed authority. I think it's alright if people steer clear of that. Others are great people to chat with Oocly and build friendships with. I believe people should pick and choose more carefully who they expose themselves to, as opposed to a Default: On setting.
I will always roleplay with anyone so long as they're nice people or nice to me; even people I argue with here. So I'm going to stand by my advice as OP and say that no questions asked if anyone on a game says to me...
"Sorry I don't share personal information, but am totally interested in fun RP!"
...I'd treat it like a safe word and just think "Alright, not here to get personal? I can roll with that."
Doing what I suggested in post 1 isnt about ducking bans or getting away with cheating. It's about getting out of the negative OOC cycle with an element being nice to people to keep your time in the hobby copacetic. I know plenty of people who are simply sick of the garbage that comes from the more negative parts of MSB or the hobby's vocal and aggressive personalities. This above suggestion is just one way to potentially take control out of their hands and put it back into yours.
Can't fault someone for wanting to get out of the OOC Game, and I'm okay with it so long as they're being nice.
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There is something to be noted here, however, and that is a lot of RP cliques that I have run into in the last 3-4 years have been of a mindset that "We don't know you, so you will get minimal attention/inclusion until we have judged you".
I normally do not advertise who I am, where. I very briefly had my AresMUSH @handle linked to a character, but removed it because it just grew more and more annoying to me. I do not play the OOC game. I, in fact, stay the hell out of any OOC conversations about a game or the players on it. I just don't want to see behind the curtain.
I agree with Ghost - there are people out there that appear (to me) to be into MUSHing mostly for the "OOC Game" or "metagame" as many describe it. They derive their fun out of the OOC interaction, for good or ill, and not the IC character stories. I say this because: 1) They very rarely RP (maybe once every 3-4 months, by their recounting), 2) 99% of their MUSH time is spent chatting and talking.
Some of those people that I describe and have talked to over the last couple of years, are the very people at the top rungs of a few games' IC structures. The IC leaders of the game. Not RPing. Not stepping down for the more actively-IC people vying for the position, either.
Having had more than a few conversations with players over the years, just in natural chats, it seems to be that this happens everywhere. As one said, "It is how MUSHing is."
So, as a result of this, I don't advertise who I am, where I play. I have no playlist. Not because I've done horrible things or been banned anywhere, I just enjoy my anonymity. I like meeting new people who may be old friends but I don't know it yet, but yet neither do they. Discovering great RPers and friends is the joy of the game for me, 50-50 with the great stories written.
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Replying because my last post wandered and didn't make a point:
I've met several people that have made no bones about outright saying "If I dont know you, we don't RP" and then they needle for past characters/games/interaction information to place me by. I have learned to simply smile and shrug, tell them that it is their loss, and I move on. I am not here to suppliment my life with online OOC drama, I get enough via work and my RL social/family life.
Some people/personality types thrive on interpersonal drama, I do not. I do not need to feed on people's energy in such ways. I much prefer to build people up, support them on rough days, help them find fun.
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@Rook said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
I've met several people that have made no bones about outright saying "If I dont know you, we don't RP" and then they needle for past characters/games/interaction information to place me by. I have learned to simply smile and shrug, tell them that it is their loss, and I move on.
How can that not be everyone's response?
If I have to prove myself to you just so we can play a game together what does that tell me about how much of a gift to the rest of us you think you are?
Wow.
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I know that you think that this is shocking (if you are not being sarcastic or facetious), but it is much more common than you might understand. It happens a lot of WoD/CoD games that I've tried joining. Make a new character and make some page-contacts, looking for people who might want fresh RP in their circles, and almost every time I get asked who I am.
I can somewhat understand fear of inter-Sphere spies, but god damn. When I state that I am new here and just looking for RP? I'm not giving up personal/identifiable information to sate someone's fears. Sorry, I'm not who you suspect I am, but thanks anyway, I'll look elsewhere.
Back to Arkandel's shock, however, it no longer shocks me to get this sentiment from MUSHers. It just doesn't. It may be inflammatory, but I think that many long-entrenched players on a game absolutely feel threatened by others. This is a game, people. It isn't your job, your livelihood, or your RL relationship. And right now? All those "But Rook"s on the tip of tongues out there just, to me, prove my point that Ghost is right.
If the OOC Game means that much to you, you are part of the problem.
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@Arkandel said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
@Rook said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
I've met several people that have made no bones about outright saying "If I dont know you, we don't RP" and then they needle for past characters/games/interaction information to place me by. I have learned to simply smile and shrug, tell them that it is their loss, and I move on.
How can that not be everyone's response?
If I have to prove myself to you just so we can play a game together what does that tell me about how much of a gift to the rest of us you think you are?
Wow.
I'd like to think I've never seen it, but I have. Not so much a direct, if someone doesn't know you they won't play with you, but I've gone places under not my name and hit brick walls with folks I know. Then if I show up next week and its me, I get an in, at least a little time of day.
There is the extended version of this. If I'm staff and play an NPC, I can get RP until the cows come home, but I show up as a PC and there's no time of day for me. That might be unfairly weighted, cause others assume their is more value from the NPC (information/plot/etc.).
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MSB is a clique. You may boo and hiss at me for saying so, so blatantly, but it's ultimately true.
Staff on a game are the people on the game who can Make Things Happen most easily, so when a staff-run scene is opened, people flock and step on each other to get there. It's worse than Black Friday at Walmart.
It says a lot about the state of MU*ing when we've come to a point that people cannot find RP because others are too worried about:
- previously banned players,
- disgusting OOC stalkery/gross behavior,
- in-game spy worries,
- being triggered.
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@Ghost already knows that we're kind of on opposite ends of the ballfield here, and that's okay. As long as you're not harming anyone, I think that everybody should play these games the way that's fun for them. If that means tuning out the OOC stuff, more power to them. That's why the Ares handle system is 100% optional. People have a right to privacy.
But since we're talking about the "OOC Game" I wanted to say why I'm in favor of it, and why Ares does encourage it.
I think that anonymity and emotional distance are at the root of the general toxicity of the Internet at large. It's so easy to tear down a name on a screen, or to think the worst of someone, or be unduly irritated by some perceived slight when you have no other connection to the person.
The way you fight this is through empathy, and one way to do that is building interpersonal connections. So when you meet SomeChar@SomeGame, it's like: "Oh, it's @Three-Eyed-Crow! We had a blast playing nurses on TGG together back in the day." I haven't really RPed with @Sparks, for instance (maybe once somewhere?), but I would definitely approach a first-time in-game meeting more positively than I would some random stranger based on our conversations here.
Of course this works both ways. If you get a bad reputation, that can work against you, and people can hold grudges. It can make it harder to break into friend circles when you're the new person. But all that is true in real life too, and the solution in real life isn't to isolate yourself. That's my 2 cents anyway.
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ANYWAY. My teasing of @faraday aside...
I've talked to @Ghost about this and we are also on opposite ends of the argument here (so v. much agree to disagree) and I have had experiences similar to @Rook.
The last time I tried to play on a game in a capacity of 'I am not sharing who I am, I am not discussing who I am, etc etc' (for a variety of reasons not the least of which my RL was a mess at the time and I wanted a nice big divide between game time and RL time)....... I couldn't get involved.
People didn't seem to want to RP with me (and you've all, I believe, seen how vocal I am on the it's not hard to get RP if you offer it along with hooks! front). People didn't engage me. People didn't bring me in for plots (I had many offers of 'sure, I'll include you!' suddenly dissipate into thin air). It was this wildly passive aggressive landscape where people would give the air of politeness and respect when they were directly dealing with me and then snub me and turn their backs the instant we weren't in the same 'space.'
But when I have identified myself, even in spaces where I'm around people I may not be on the best of terms with and I just play the game even if I am saying 'Hi, I'm Auspice!' ... I have a much better time.
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@Auspice Heh, yes, but I don't think we actually RPed because I didn't have a pilot char. Maybe in an air combat scene I ran or something. Anyway, general point still stands
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@Lotherio said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
@Arkandel said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
@Rook said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
I've met several people that have made no bones about outright saying "If I dont know you, we don't RP" and then they needle for past characters/games/interaction information to place me by. I have learned to simply smile and shrug, tell them that it is their loss, and I move on.
How can that not be everyone's response?
If I have to prove myself to you just so we can play a game together what does that tell me about how much of a gift to the rest of us you think you are?
Wow.
I'd like to think I've never seen it, but I have. Not so much a direct, if someone doesn't know you they won't play with you, but I've gone places under not my name and hit brick walls with folks I know. Then if I show up next week and its me, I get an in, at least a little time of day.
This. When I identify myself as myself (as in not actively keeping it on the down low), I have a way way way way easier time finding RP than when I do not. There are a few things I don't have to deal with as well, but my experience between characters when I'm 'out' on one and not on another sort of makes me sad when I stop and actually think about it.
ETA: I should add 'for the first few months' of not being out, because the moment I end up around people who know me it's pretty much all over. SOMEDAY I will figure out what my tells are. Someday.