Scenes You Have Always Wanted to Have...
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The only thing worse (and less likely) for the average gamer than running away is surrendering to be captured. It's very, very hard to get them to do either of those things, unless it's their idea.
The scene I MOST always wanted to have is a very specific one. I had a character who had a friend. They were both Lost, and therefore crazy, and the friend descended into paranoid delusions that included peppering my character's apartment with crime scene photos of his dead girlfriend before he went into hiding. We talked, OOC, about my character tracking him down and having the most epic and pathetic crazy slapfight ever -- because we were both thinky-type characters, and had absolute crap for combat rolls. Sadly, it never happened.
More generally, though, I've always, always wanted an enemies/rivals to reluctant-and-snarky friends storyline, with all the scenes involved in that. Ideally, it would include at least one unsuccessful murder attempt on each side, and then either the old-fashioned trope of getting stuck in a situation they can't get out of without working together, or just finding someone else they both hate so much that they bond over it.
I would damn near pay money for this storyline with two characters that had real chemistry.
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I think sometimes it's a case of the ST not really thinking about their group, sometimes, too. If it's got a bunch of teenagers and/or wannabe alpha males/females in it, I think probably it's not unIC for there to be lip and bluster and dumb and overconfidence. Vs. a more cerebral crowd.
Though I will say it really does suck to be the PC freaking out/panicking and therefore coming up with stupid ideas IC and have the other players or ST like...not react at all. Or even worse, assume that oocly you're a dumbass because your character is reacting vs being instacompetant.
I still do it--I think there's only been one PC of mine in recent memory that doesn't barf at blood/guts/weirdness or do silly things like shout and pretend they're going to stand their ground but rarely am I called on it and have to turn tail and run. :). But it is really a bummer that most of the time people don't even blink.
I did get a ton of hilarious pemits when my ghoul lost her lunch at a vampire execution on TR though.
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@Pyrephox said:
The only thing worse (and less likely) for the average gamer than running away is surrendering to be captured. It's very, very hard to get them to do either of those things, unless it's their idea.
The scene I MOST always wanted to have is a very specific one. I had a character who had a friend. They were both Lost, and therefore crazy, and the friend descended into paranoid delusions that included peppering my character's apartment with crime scene photos of his dead girlfriend before he went into hiding. We talked, OOC, about my character tracking him down and having the most epic and pathetic crazy slapfight ever -- because we were both thinky-type characters, and had absolute crap for combat rolls. Sadly, it never happened.
More generally, though, I've always, always wanted an enemies/rivals to reluctant-and-snarky friends storyline, with all the scenes involved in that. Ideally, it would include at least one unsuccessful murder attempt on each side, and then either the old-fashioned trope of getting stuck in a situation they can't get out of without working together, or just finding someone else they both hate so much that they bond over it.
I would damn near pay money for this storyline with two characters that had real chemistry.
I will play this with you. Well, I will try, chemistry being a fickle mistress.
@mietze said:
I still do it--I think there's only been one PC of mine in recent memory that doesn't barf at blood/guts/weirdness or do silly things like shout and pretend they're going to stand their ground but rarely am I called on it and have to turn tail and run. :). But it is really a bummer that most of the time people don't even blink.
I did get a ton of hilarious pemits when my ghoul lost her lunch at a vampire execution on TR though.
Two things: 1) people will call you stupid for your character doing stupid things, usually because it affects them or because they don't like you anyway and are just clinging to the nearest thing they can judge you for; 2) in my experience the vast majority of people love players who do that sort of hilarious thing... they just don't feel comfortable being that character because omg what if they look dumb?!
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Lately, I've wanted an IC Nemesis so bad... Not just some NPC, but an actual character on a game. I feel like, sometimes, just because my characters have boobs, means that people can't not (double negative for the win) get along with them. I know that, generally speaking, people don't want to overstep, or whatever, but come on... Makes me miss the days of all the smaller MUSHes I used to play on. I guess since we were more of a tight nit group of players at the time, there was more ooc trust, which led to more IC risk.
So... No specific scene I've wanted, really. Just a series of them.
Also, as an ST, a scene where someone actually responds and catches on to little nuances in plot instead of skim-reading and missing half the shit I planned. I was just getting back into STing after years, and someone ruined it for me again,.kind of. What's the point of RP if you're not going to read? =(
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@thebird said:
Lately, I've wanted an IC Nemesis so bad... Not just some NPC, but an actual character on a game. I feel like, sometimes, just because my characters have boobs, means that people can't not (double negative for the win) get along with them. I know that, generally speaking, people don't want to overstep, or whatever, but come on... Makes me miss the days of all the smaller MUSHes I used to play on. I guess since we were more of a tight nit group of players at the time, there was more ooc trust, which led to more IC risk.
So... No specific scene I've wanted, really. Just a series of them.
Also, as an ST, a scene where someone actually responds and catches on to little nuances in plot instead of skim-reading and missing half the shit I planned. I was just getting back into STing after years, and someone ruined it for me again,.kind of. What's the point of RP if you're not going to read? =(
You should RP with @Alzie. They're pretty great at stepping up and taking actual hostile action when appropriate.
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@thebird said:
Lately, I've wanted an IC Nemesis so bad... Not just some NPC, but an actual character on a game. I feel like, sometimes, just because my characters have boobs, means that people can't not (double negative for the win) get along with them. I know that, generally speaking, people don't want to overstep, or whatever, but come on... Makes me miss the days of all the smaller MUSHes I used to play on. I guess since we were more of a tight nit group of players at the time, there was more ooc trust, which led to more IC risk.
So... No specific scene I've wanted, really. Just a series of them.
Also, as an ST, a scene where someone actually responds and catches on to little nuances in plot instead of skim-reading and missing half the shit I planned. I was just getting back into STing after years, and someone ruined it for me again,.kind of. What's the point of RP if you're not going to read? =(
I've done the IC Nemesis thing before and it's great. I think you just need to find a good player and have a liiiiiitttle OOC conversation that goes like this:
"Let's have our characters hate each other and be nemeses for our OOC fun. Deal? Deal. Make sure to tap me on the shoulder if you get uncomfortable."
That's pretty much how it went with me, and then while our characters were being horrible to each other, we were giving each other high-5s over pages.
If I mush again and you see me on? Look me up. I'd be willing to do this.
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@Coin Woot! Should we ever be on the same game, we'll have to give it a try.
Also, regarding IC incompetence...there's a line, too. A character that does a stupid thing is great. A character that continually does nothing but stupid things (especially if they do so in a way that wrenches the scene's focus from whatever it was to mememememe) is less great. Likewise, a character that violates the assumed competence of a particular setting or game (in either direction! Unflappable Marines with perfect combat skills are disruptive in a scene about the Scooby Gang investigating a haunted house. But, likewise, Shaggy isn't appropriate for a Delta Green plot.)
I think, in general, a lot of people just have trouble with figuring out where the lines are for various things.
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@thebird said:
Lately, I've wanted an IC Nemesis so bad... Not just some NPC, but an actual character on a game. I feel like, sometimes, just because my characters have boobs, means that people can't not (double negative for the win) get along with them. I know that, generally speaking, people don't want to overstep, or whatever, but come on...
Yeah that's been my biggest disappointment as a player. A couple of times I've made up a char that was supposed to raise eyebrows and hostility (like my Wild West ranch hand girl) but everybody wants to be BFFs. Then you have to emit NPCs giving you crap just to be remotely thematic, but everyone acts like the NPCs are the crazy/unreasonable ones just for expressing appropriate IC values. It gets weird.
I totally get why people do it, on a social level. It just always struck me as a missed opportunity for some good IC conflict.
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I think many players just want to be everyone's IC bestie, and assume everyone else approaches the game with that same mentality. Even if they behave ICly in ways that make being their bestie impossible unless you completely shut off your character's brain.
I've done the IC nemesis, and even just ICly frenemy, thing with players I trusted and were cool with it, and it's a lot of fun. It lets you play up different colors of your char's personality, so they aren't just blandly sociable in every scene.
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Also, you never know who's playing an antagonistic character because they're awesome people who will relish some IC conflict...and who's playing an antagonistic character because they have absolutely no IC/OOC separation and will take even the mildest hint of dislike or aggression as a sign to harass you OOC about your meanness, and/or initiate combat.
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On a mostly inactive sphere I had a similar conversation with someone in the recent past - creating a rival PC, that is - but the tough part in that situation is how to still encourage roleplay between them.
I mean the issue there is IC; unless you create the circumstances very carefully so the two characters antagonize each other but also get to hang out regularly, you'll end up with players who might have good OOC chemistry but rarely get to play together even though they are both online and bored because the PCs don't like each other. Which sucks.
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There's this fear these days of inter personal conflict. That everyone has to be best friends or you won't be part of the 'cool crowd' or some such. With the hobby sort of promoting clique's of people who are on at your time etc, this isn't entirely unreasonable, everyone wants to have fun and RP.
Antagonistic characters can turn a scene into an unwanted confrontation, where people may or may not, just be out to relax after a hard day at work or whatever.
Personally I always end up with IC enemies, because I play my characters as who they are, not as social chameleons trying to get on everyone's best, (unless they /are/ a social chameleon character).
But I am not afraid of a shitstorm either, or losing my character if it's IC, so we end up with the White Hat crowd who will White Hat even if it's not thematically appropriate not caring for my pc's a bunch of the time due to my inability to not have a character /live/ in the setting they are in.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
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@Lithium said:
There's this fear these days of inter personal conflict. That everyone has to be best friends or you won't be part of the 'cool crowd' or some such.
This may be true, but I've never shied away from conflict. There's one player that seems to delight in making my PCs uncomfortable or antagonistic.
And it's not @Pondscum; she just pukes on my PCs.
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I'm in the crowd that doesn't like IC conflict. I deal with enough interpersonal politics at work with my managers and bosses all jockeying for positions and promotions that I don't want to RP doing that sort of thing when I get home and am trying to relax. It's tedious and boring to me.
When my characters meet IC PC assholes (especially ones that don't offer intriguing hooks, they just smoke their cigarettes extra hard), they just excuse themselves from the rooms and go rp elsewhere, why would they want to hang out with jerks when there's a galaxy to meet cool and interesting people just outside the door?
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@SG said:
I'm in the crowd that doesn't like IC conflict.
There's a line, I think, between "OMG I hate you!" and "Hey let's be BFFs even though our characters have IC reasons not to get along so great." A line between being an ass and being at odds over conflicting political/social beliefs.
I get that people are leery of walking that line because of the potential for others to get pissed at them. I just think that MUSHes are a little more interesting when everyone doesn't see eye to eye on absolutely everything.
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@SG At a certain level we need to establish what 'conflict' means in the context of the game you're playing.
If all it means is "the characters hate and will attack each other on sight" then yes, obviously that's counter-productive to playing in the long term since the opportunities to actually roleplay are slim.
If they are political rivals but have a healthy respect for each other - for example - or fight their wars mostly through proxies (think Moriarty versus Holmes) it's a different story.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel said:
@SG At a certain level we need to establish what 'conflict' means in the context of the game you're playing.
If all it means is "the characters hate and will attach each other on sight" then yes, obviously that's counter-productive to playing in the long term since the opportunities to actually roleplay are slim.
If they are political rivals but have a healthy respect for each other - for example - or fight their wars mostly through proxies (think Moriarty versus Holmes) it's a different story.
The issue tends to come in when, as some people have been fairly open about believing on WORA in the past, that if your character feels that someone might potentially be a threat to them, then OF COURSE you're going to use every IC means in your disposal to remove them from the equation entirely, because leaving them alive to oppose you further would be stupid. It's not OOCly malicious, but it does make it much harder to have a hate-ship or rivals relationship, because MU* conflict tends to escalate crazy-fast into "unfun".
I like IC conflict, but I don't like the rate of escalation and OOC drama that tends to happen, so I've become really wary of initiating any significant conflict.
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@Arkandel said:
If they are political rivals but have a healthy respect for each other - for example - or fight their wars mostly through proxies (think Moriarty versus Holmes) it's a different story.
Unless you're into House of Commons Rp, i don't see rival characters like this interacting all that much. Even though Harper and Trudeau shared the same barber, I don't imagine they met up that often for what we'd call RPs type scenes.
Likewise, greasers and soces would very rarely meet up, and when they did, it was usually trouble. They'd all stick to their own cliques for fun RP that interested them.
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@SG said:
Unless you're into House of Commons Rp, i don't see rival characters like this interacting all that much. Even thought Harper and Trudeau shared the same barber, I don't imagine they met up that often for what we'd call RPs type scenes.
There are actually lots of cases of political rivals in different parties who have quite interesting relationships outside work (Reagan and former House Speaker Tip O'Neill are the most prominent example I can think of off the top of my head, but this isn't even uncommon or strange, much as present rhetoric would like to suggest). That's also tangential, so.
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@SG said:
Unless you're into House of Commons Rp, i don't see rival characters like this interacting all that much. Even though Harper and Trudeau shared the same barber, I don't imagine they met up that often for what we'd call RPs type scenes.
Oh, I agree, and I said so earlier in the thread (I think in this page) - the circumstances would need to be set carefully so the two characters get to play with each other regularly else, especially in a slow or mostly inactive sphere, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
