X-Men Utopia MUX
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@ixokai It's not without its bugs. I'm mostly mulling ways you could get away from the traditional model of app-writing. It's ancient, and while it's still serviceable I can't help but feel like there's got to be a better way to handle it.
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@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@ixokai It's not without its bugs. I'm mostly mulling ways you could get away from the traditional model of app-writing. It's ancient, and while it's still serviceable I can't help but feel like there's got to be a better way to handle it.
I don't know.
I think app writing is fine: what I'm hearing is I think some games are completely idiotic in what they expect out of an app.
One of my characters has, among his various abilities, TK. It is defined thusly:
Telekinesis: Without using a spell, he can lift and manipulate up to two tons of matter with a fine degree of control. This can be used for flight as well: in fact he has a hard time turning it off in that case. He tends to float without really thinking about it.
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If we could get everyone to write traits that succinct I'd be much less against trait apps. I've run games where I've been very explicit that BGs should be no more than 1 page length and I still got no end of ridiculous BGs. The issue is, that I've found, is that a lot of these appers have apps from ages ago that they just recycle.
To me the same can be said using FASERIP with this: Telekinesis RM
You can see that and a bunch of other traits with a simple +sheet command.
To be clear, I don't think either is wrong necessarily. Just different.
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@zombiegenesis said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
If we could get everyone to write traits that succinct I'd be much less against trait apps. I've run games where I've been very explicit that BGs should be no more than 1 page length and I still got no end of ridiculous BGs. The issue is, that I've found, is that a lot of these appers have apps from ages ago that they just recycle.
To me the same can be said using FASERIP with this: Telekinesis RM
You can see that and a bunch of other traits with a simple +sheet command.
To be clear, I don't think either is wrong necessarily. Just different.
Oh yeah, I'm not against RPGs-or-stats.
In fact I usually prefer them: I like rolling, I like dice informed by stats (better even if situational modifiers can be taken into account) determining success.
Sorry, I was sorta derailing the thread.
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But really, what I would like to see isn't grilling people about characters or asking a series of questions... more akin to a conversation. I love talking about the characters I play; I could do it all day. But I understand the unease about sitting down to an interview to see whether or not you can play a bit.
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@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@ixokai It's not without its bugs. I'm mostly mulling ways you could get away from the traditional model of app-writing. It's ancient, and while it's still serviceable I can't help but feel like there's got to be a better way to handle it.
Honestly, there is. Just that most of the dinosaurs would never consider it. The answer is: get rid of applications. Your application becomes a link to a wiki with data about your character, like Comicvine or Wikipedia. You can write up a "Differences" paragraph, and go "My character is this, but X". Let's face it...we all KNOW these characters. Everyone on the planet knows Batman. And if someone is apping for Cannonball, odds are good that, yeah, they know Cannonball. What good does it do ANYONE to make people retype and regurgitate info we already know and which is easily available online. None. It's like the long apps of old. In a day when Wikipedia didn't exist, they maybe made some sense. Now? None.
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@gamerngeek said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@ixokai It's not without its bugs. I'm mostly mulling ways you could get away from the traditional model of app-writing. It's ancient, and while it's still serviceable I can't help but feel like there's got to be a better way to handle it.
Honestly, there is. Just that most of the dinosaurs would never consider it. The answer is: get rid of applications. Your application becomes a link to a wiki with data about your character, like Comicvine or Wikipedia. You can write up a "Differences" paragraph, and go "My character is this, but X". Let's face it...we all KNOW these characters. Everyone on the planet knows Batman. And if someone is apping for Cannonball, odds are good that, yeah, they know Cannonball. What good does it do ANYONE to make people retype and regurgitate info we already know and which is easily available online. None. It's like the long apps of old. In a day when Wikipedia didn't exist, they maybe made some sense. Now? None.
ComicVine and wikia don't work really because characters have vastly different powers often depending on where they are in their story.
Not every character apps in at the top-tier of where they 'currently' are in their story.
Writing a 'Differences:' between if someone was playing a year-1-ish character would be essentially writing a whole app.
And ComicVine has history, but is terrible on details of abilities and skills and the like.
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@ixokai Not really. If I wanted to play a Year One Batman, I link to a good Batman wiki writeup (there are lots), and type &differences me=As per link, but cutoff at Year 1. Also, his Robin is Jason Todd, not Dick Grayson.
Done. Finis. Asking for any more is really redundant busywork. Asking people to write up skills and powers is just that. We all know what skills Batman has. We all know what skills Peter Parker has. We know what powers Superman has. And if we didn't, somehow, we click the wiki link and read, same as we would +sheet, except without all the rigamarole.
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@gamerngeek said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@ixokai Not really. If I wanted to play a Year One Batman, I link to a good Batman wiki writeup (there are lots), and type &differences me=As per link, but cutoff at Year 1. Also, his Robin is Jason Todd, not Dick Grayson.
Done. Finis. Asking for any more is really redundant busywork. Asking people to write up skills and powers is just that. We all know what skills Batman has. We all know what skills Peter Parker has. We know what powers Superman has. And if we didn't, somehow, we click the wiki link and read, same as we would +sheet, except without all the rigamarole.
I look at Marvel wikia pages constantly, due to handling apps. And they are simply not written in a way that clearly shows what powers someone has at a certain point of their development.
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This is one of the primary reasons I keep suggesting that, even if one wants to use a particular point of comic timeline as a setting (ie the one for Utopia, which provides an interesting point for RP), there are still some pretty gnarly hitches that come with trying to cling purely to 'continuity' as your only guideline for managing the game, including defining people's powers as 'whatever they are at that point.' Because that one's a pretty deep rabbit hole.
Do you look up the appearance nearest to the cutoff point to see what they're capable of at that particular moment in 'time'? What if that author happened to write a pretty de-powered version of the character compared to other nearby appearances? What if the character hasn't been around a while? What if they get more powerful pretty soon after? There are some pretty hilariously high and low watermarks for certain characters (e.g. Magneto who can literally only float ferrous crap around vs. Magneto who basically controls all EM and most matter).
This is why I tend to favor both fresher starts and statted systems, as they limit and constrain. People naturally gravitate toward the most powerful versions of things: you rarely see Rogue without Carol's powers (even if it makes no sense), Jean as not-Phoenix, people without their second mutations in general, etc. If you say everyone is a baseline version of the character set, that's fairly easy to work AND stat from, while everything on top of that requires increasing scrutiny and unfortunately this can add to annoying app-bloat.
Would it be viable to have the House of M/Decimation/Necrosha stuff all involve a certain degree of 'resetting' people? It doesn't work for any/all characters, but it's a thought.
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Resetting characters like that likely wouldn't be viable at all in that kind of setting. Its just making another Year One game but forcing all the PCs to be Year One in a Year Five (or whatever) world.
And while there are people out there just in it for the power levels, it usually comes more down to people apping the version that they know most. I'd argue that 'super strong, flight, and power absorbing' is what comes to mind as Rogue's default powerset to most people more than just 'power absorb'. Same with Jean, most people are going to think Phoenix more than plain Marvel Girl for her.
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You could use a Comic Vine or Wiki page for a general reference for history, factor that into a cutoff, and summarize powers to specifically fit the stage they're at in the game itself without it turning into a massive write-up.
No reason people can't do a combination of both "Go read this here" and "Describe this in your own words in-game" as long as it's reasonably done.
With an FC, I'd care more about someone showing s/he knows how to play the character over all the rest. Being that an OC would not have been seen before by most, that's where a more in-depth write-up becomes necessary but I still think people should focus on making it as brief as reasonably possible.
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But those aren't Rogue's powers at the time period they're planning to set the game, or arguably for a lot of 'modern' comics (which was kind of the pitch for the setting).
Anyway, that's just kind of the point I'm trying to demonstrate. Do you actually research issue numbers and stat these characters out 'correctly' per this continuity they want to do? And if not, and people can just app what they want, how is it a continuity game any more than UH on an island?
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@bored said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
But those aren't Rogue's powers at the time period they're planning to set the game, or arguably for a lot of 'modern' comics (which was kind of the pitch for the setting).
Anyway, that's just kind of the point I'm trying to demonstrate. Do you actually research issue numbers and stat these characters out 'correctly' per this continuity they want to do? And if not, and people can just app what they want, how is it a continuity game any more than UH on an island?
I know, I was just trying to offer a theory or explanation on why people seem to always go for that one version of Rogue. That it wasn't so much about power as that being the most well known one.
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@scourge I mean, I definitely agree with you. I imagine most MUers aside from a few hardcore comic types (which I think are the minority of the board regulars, though the UH drama has brought some out) are a lot more mentally invested in 90s Cartoon X-Men as their single greatest influence, 80s-hair Glamazon Rogue included. Of course, even then Jean is mostly just Jean, not Phoenix other than as a plot point, so I still chalk that one up to people being twinkish.
Anyway, I'm just not sure how you gracefully address the (former) issue on a game like this.
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@gamerngeek That's another reason having a well defined 'period' for a game's setting is a good idea. If you app the Rebirth Batman you know which Batman you're getting, who the current Robin is, whether he already has a history with the JLA, etc.
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One thing we did on UU was limit apps to the text buffer, iirc. I don't remember if it was each section (background, powers, flaws, etc) or the whole thing, but there was a hard cap based on the input buffer and if you went over your app just cut short and we'd basically telly ou 'your app's too long, cut stuff' before we'd even look at it.
It wasn't perfect but it made for pretty succinct apps.
One thing I definitely suggest is: let OCs be as powerful as the FCs.
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@bored Well for Jean I'd say the first thing that comes to mind for most people is "she keeps dying and coming back" which I'm told is a source of frustration for a lot of Jean players. But that aside, I think its not that hard to address the issue.
Have people app what's fits the cut off/era. If someone really wants say 'super strong and flying' Rogue, they could always work towards that by running a plot or something to have Rogue get that.
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@scourge said in X-Men Utopia MUX:
@bored Well for Jean I'd say the first thing that comes to mind for most people is "she keeps dying and coming back" which I'm told is a source of frustration for a lot of Jean players. But that aside, I think its not that hard to address the issue.
What's frustrating about it?
Hell, that's a very common superpower. Nearly all superheroes possess it.
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It would be neat if the application to make a PC were just to make up the wiki with a sheet on it.
