Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question

[ZombieGenesis]

@Ganymede What you've done is fantastic, thank you! And absolutely invest no more time in this. You've already done more than I could have asked and I thank you for that!

[Taika]

Gany is awesome sauce like that.

[Miss Demeanor]

@ganymede said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

Kupua (Maui): What can I say except “you’re welcome”? These Polynesian seafarers are known for playing pranks on others, some of which have had deadly consequences. Animalism, Dominate, Protean, Resilience. (Custom.) (Because Sharkhead, that's why. Also, plays into West Coast surfer culture -- basically, Polynesian Rotgrafen)

AHAHAHA... I see what you did there. Love it!

[Ganymede]

@zombiegenesis said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

What you've done is fantastic, thank you! And absolutely invest no more time in this. You've already done more than I could have asked and I thank you for that!

You're welcome, but ... the ideas aren't complete. What I made was just a proposal. You probably want something as thorough as I provided for The Descent if you want things to be attractive.

Like, the Otaku. What's their link to Hotei? And how does that affect their outlook on existence? What's their relationship with other bloodlines? Why? And so on. Like, there's a lot of work to be done on each of the bloodlines proposed, from boons to banes to devotions.

Just let me know if you want me to work on that. That's what I mean.

[magee101]

So coming from a person that has never played any incarnation of vampire but only read through nWoD 1e Requiem, I can tell you what I really like about bloodlines.

It allows you to add a little extra flavor, a little extra kick to set you apart from vampires of the same clan. To me vampires are sort of like Prometheans right, they live an extremely long time, they don't really socialize with anyone but other vampires (aside from eating things) and they're prone to not really changing as a person, which can make vampires a bit historically 2 dimensional characters driven by the facets of their clan and Sire.

So bloodlines allow you to add another dimension to a character, be it a sickness like Malkovians, that mark them so differently from their base clan, to an extreme burden to all of Kindred society (some of the Mekhet bloodlines come to mind here). It adds more flavor, adds more variety in mechanics and combinations.

Now again this is all from reading 1e nWoD, I have no idea how bloodlines are proposed to function in 2e, because some of what I've read in this thread suggests they work differently than they do in 1e, but that's my two cents on why I would want bloodlines.

[Ganymede]

@magee101 said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

I have no idea how bloodlines are proposed to function in 2e, because some of what I've read in this thread suggests they work differently than they do in 1e, but that's my two cents on why I would want bloodlines.

As stated above, Vampire 2E seems to like to do away with the 'unique discipline' that some (but not all) of the bloodlines got, and replace that with a Bloodline Boon and a set of bloodline-specific devotions (which is how they re-made the Khaibit). The Kerberoi have access to a set of 'unique' Merits, but those are horridly overpowered in use.

Otherwise, everything you said is why I like bloodlines.

So bloodlines allow you to add another dimension to a character, be it a sickness like Malkovians, that mark them so differently from their base clan, to an extreme burden to all of Kindred society (some of the Mekhet bloodlines come to mind here). It adds more flavor, adds more variety in mechanics and combinations.

Right, so, when making The Descent's bloodlines, I added a thought: how does this bloodline fit into the setting? For The Descent, the setting was post-apocalyptic, spiritual, and otherworldly: there was less emphasis on the First Tradition because there were spirits, ghosts, and monsters prowling about in public (like The Witcher). I crafted each of them to fit into some relevant niche:

Adroanzi: The post-apocalyptic world is being overrun by nature, and these vampires have mastered nature.
Ahrimanes: Vampires that live in and watch the spirit world, who have emerged to preserve the boundaries between worlds.
Alucinor: Shadows that dwelled too far into the realm of dreams, they manipulate and control their herds in their sleep.
Azerkatil: Vampires are monsters too; the Azerkatil hunt them down and destroy them on contract.
Blood Brothers: Wasteland-dwelling survivors that use their group strength to protect themselves from predation.
Dragolescu: Ghosts are not always bad; these vampires have learned to deal with them for fame and fortune.
Galloi: Self-appointed Lords and Ladies of civilization whose twisted, vice-ridden predilections turn their herds into harems.
Khaibit: The world's historical defense against the Strix and other Horrors.
Icarians: PURGE THE UNCLEAN. These monster-hunters live for battle, and are sworn to rid the world of Horrors.
Myrmex: Hive-mind evangelical apocalyptic cult members that all march to the same beat.
Nelapsi: Lords over the herds that steal from others that have mastered their supernatural hunger.
Oberlochs: Savage warlords that fiercely protect their herds like alpha dogs.
Septimi: Humanists sworn to protect humanity and exorcise the evil that preys upon it.
Shepherds: Conservationists that follow the Fourth Tradition.
Sta-Au: Predators from the Land of Worms, these vampires feed on and slay the ghosts that stray into the real world.

What a lot of 1E games lack is focus or direction for their bloodlines. It's not enough to just be flavor; if bloodlines are to be meaningful, they have to be acknowledged and affixed within the setting somehow. So, in my opinion, game designers need to pay heed to what they want to do with the bloodlines, and not be afraid to reject requests to add more.

[surreality]

@ganymede said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

What a lot of 1E games lack is focus or direction for their bloodlines. It's not enough to just be flavor; if bloodlines are to be meaningful, they have to be acknowledged and affixed within the setting somehow. So, in my opinion, game designers need to pay heed to what they want to do with the bloodlines, and not be afraid to reject requests to add more.

This, times several thousand. Though not WoD, just going through the skills listing for a project over this weekend has been a nightmare -- there's a lot of them that are meaningful in a larger world, but in the setting I picked (for a reason, dammit)? No. So they aren't going in.

I added this line to a file earlier tonight, and sleep dep inspired or not, it's staying:

Things being developed by an entire team of dedicated researchers in a mysterious secret lair in Japan with billions in funding behind them or similar experimental weirdness you found on youtube and dialed up past eleven are not even going to be considered no matter how many links you send to show how plausible it is that you cobbled one together in your root cellar; don't even ask.

^ Do not be afraid to do the same. You will have to at some point. It is easier to get it out of the way up front.

[Killer Klown]

@surreality
One, I said 'the main reason it didn't work on Reno', not 'then main reason Reno created the HR'; meaning that letting WB's keep their Tells if they went to any other splat would have been far too overpowered with the way Reno was handling Tells and multiples thereof. It has nothing to do with stating why the HR requiring them to lose the Tell was in place (Which, for the record, I agree with your reasoning on in a general sense - it's my entire point behind not liking Dead Wolves. WB's shouldn't be treated differently after a becoming - any becoming -just by virtue of the fact that they're WBs. It's not fair to other M+s)

Two, the Merit says - specifically - that it grants a Second Tell. It does not in any way say that it can be taken multiple times; ergo there's no real clarification needed. WB's get one Tell normally, with the merit they get two.

'The character develops a second Tell, chosen from those available to Wolf-Blooded.'

And what's more, the text of the merit seems to indicate that so-called 'Spontaneous' Wolfbloods don't even get two; though as a ST I'd rule that as unduely harsh for the same reasons as above - WB's shouldn't be treated differently than any other M+ template, whether it be to their benefit or detriment.

Three; replacing DW's may be the case - and that's all well and good if people want to keep the Tell rule as written; but my issue was the idea of trying to convert or upgrade Dead Wolves as existing.

[Coin]

The thing about Dead Wolves is that everyone gets hung up on what they were originally without allowing for a new interpretation.

A Dead Wolf Bloodline (I actually hate that name, but I digress) could simply have to do with Gangrels who've learned to tap into the power of spirits/moon/werewolf nature through Protean and Animalism. There is room for this. The Dead Wolves bloodline I wrote for Reno worked because of the House Rules Reno had--but if there had been other rules I could have easily changed some stuf to make them work anyway.

[surreality]

@killer-klown Having checked the forums and seeing multiple instances of multiple tells being standard -- more than two -- and no one from their staff or even other members or whatever piping up about how it was not meant that way? Sorry, no. I don't agree with you, and the community at large doesn't really seem to, either. (I eventually stopped looking because omg the link to something else that came up in a search almost got posted the Random Links thread in terms of WTFery.)

If you want to play semantic games instead, I also see 'sts may require' rather than 'must' re: any merits (which would actually include the moon birth and such ones are only optionally removed) 'in that case'.

I cannot actually believe you are trying to rules lawyer me still over rules I wrote out of some desperate... something, so I'm just going to sorta wave you off at this point and engage no further, because I'm not going to clutter up someone else's thread with one of those gross instances of 'somebody telling the actual author what the author's intent was'. You are, in fact, being that guy right now.

[Killer Klown]

I have not said anything about the 'intent' of rules at Reno. I mentioned it in passing alone - what I said came directly from the book. You were the one who brought up the rule/hr on Reno - I used that in my commentary, but I never once made any statement as to the 'intent' on that specific game - at least in regards to the Wolf Blood Tells transferring or not transferring. My initial comment on Reno's HR with regards to Dead Wolves was the HR'ing the Bloodline. It had nothing at all to do with any HR's involving Wolfbloods as Wolfbloods.

Frankly; I don't care about what rules you wrote, why you wrote them or the sanity thereof. My commentary was - and should be - related to Dead Wolves in specific; which did, at least at first, have to do with the topic at hand. Any further commentary on Tells, et cetera, was directed to you after you pushed it off the rails.

As to what the 'community' believes - that's immaterial. What I quoted was from the book itself; and even that's irrelevant to the topic I was commenting on (See, Dead Wolves and issues in translating them to 2e).

Frankly; I don't care about what rules you wrote, why you wrote them or the sanity thereof. (If you bothered reading above, I even said I agreed with your reasons and the rule itself; so I have no idea where this 'rules lawyering you over rules you wrote' is coming from) My commentary was - and should be - related to Dead Wolves in specific; which did, at least at first, have to do with the topic at hand. Any further commentary on Tells, et cetera, was directed to you after you pushed it off the rails.

[surreality]

@killer-klown said in Vampire Requiem 2nd Edition Bloodlines Question:

@surreality
One, I said 'the main reason it didn't work on Reno', not 'then main reason Reno created the HR'

Uh-huh. And done now. <clicks the little eye thingie>