Valorous Dominion

[Doozer]

@rucket I'd like to do that, yeah.

[Lithium]

Ok, going through chargen and there is some serious issues with this system. There are 5 stats. 4 of them tie directly into combat stuff, and the last stat is 'appearance'. You get 60 points, and the average is 12. Which means if you want to be remarkable in any way, something else has to suck... or you just be bland average person with 12's in everything.

There is balance, and then there is to much rigidity.

This system is /rigid/.

[Pyrephox]

@lithium I gather that most actual checks are off of skills, not stats, and skills are a /little/ more generous. Only a little, though. It is definitely not a high power system, and characters will have one thing they are pretty decent at, and a /whole/ lotta things that they are only average at.

[Lithium]

@pyrephox I just would like to be big and strong without being a clutz and ugly as sin.

[Pyrephox]

@lithium I don't think this is that kind of system, honestly. You can't be all things, or you can, but you can be mediocre at all things. Just not great. Or you can be a bit above average at a couple of things, and a bit below average at a couple of others. I wanted my character to have a surprisingly robust constitution, so I dropped her size and her strength a couple of points below average, so she's scrawny, but surprisingly tough for her size.

[ixokai]

I didn't really get the impression that 12 represented "average".

[Lithium]

@pyrephox It is really hard to think 'heroic arthurian style character' when the system is that restrictive. For example:

To be big (Size 14) and strong (Strength 14) I have to be clutzy (10 Dex) and have a weak consitution (10 constitution) or be ugly as hell (8 Appearance).

It's not about being all the things at the same time.

[Roz]

@lithium I was a little confused at first too with attributes. I eventually just googled "king arthur pendragon rpg chargen" for suggestions, and got an excerpt of a PDF that helped with suggestions of how to, say, stat a decent combat character, and it kind of gave me permission to lower some stuff that I was worried about. I don't even know if 12 is meant to indicate "average." There might be a range around it that's average. Like, the book says that recommended minimums for a PC who's going to see combat are like - Size 11, Strength 10, and Constitution 8. Seeing that really adjusted my expectations in what was meant to be considered "average."

[Pyrephox]

Pendragon doesn't really do /heroic/ Arthurian characters. It does 'low fantasy, hardscrabble knights' Arthurian characters. And 14s are really, really high, as I understand it. You're checking a single d20 for just about everything. 10 is 50/50, and anything above that is better than.

[Lithium]

@ixokai said in Valorous Dominion:

I didn't really get the impression that 12 represented "average".

That's what their wiki says, 12 is average.

@roz That's a little better at least, as that represents that 8 is more the baseline average rather than statistical average. Which is very helpful to thinking of character in that way.

[Roz]

@lithium said in Valorous Dominion:

@ixokai said in Valorous Dominion:

I didn't really get the impression that 12 represented "average".

That's what their wiki says, 12 is average.

@roz That's a little better at least, as that represents that 8 is more the baseline average rather than statistical average. Which is very helpful to thinking of character in that way.

Yeah, I went through the same sort of thing where it just didn't make sense in my head at first before reading that bit and adjusting my expectations a bit (because I also felt like "if 12 is average then I have to really suck at some stuff").

[faraday]

@roz said in Valorous Dominion:

the book says that recommended minimums for a PC who's going to see combat are like - Size 11, Strength 10, and Constitution 8.

That's with an implicit +3 to Con, though. So it's really 10-11 as the minimum recommended value for knightly combat stats. Granted, knights would be assumed to be above the average citizen in beefcakeness so I guess it depends on whether you mean 'average knight' or 'average peasant'.

[krmbm]

You can also raise everything but size down the road.

Since all characters are coming out of chargen with the same limitations, at least you know everyone is going to be in roughly the same place: they all kinda suck at one thing so they can be awesome at something else.

Maybe your tough-guy starts out kinda ugly, but eventually learns that red is actually his color, and raises his appearance~

Anyway, I've got two characters here, have had a couple of fun scenes on each. Although I agree that the points are a little limiting out of Chargen, I was able to make two characters that are pretty true to my original concepts out of the points I was given.

The wiki is a mess, and there are a few things broken on the game (+glance, +help finger says you can set things in the finger fields but you can't, etc.), but the staff are super responsive, quick to fix things or implement suggestions, prompt on answering questions, and very friendly.

[Lotherio]

@pyrephox said in Valorous Dominion:

Pendragon doesn't really do /heroic/ Arthurian characters.

Heh, starting chars are hard and combat can be brutal. But with raises it gets up into passion inspired pro knights with skills in the 20s, sometimes over 30 that battle for hours with no one doing any damage, much like a lot of the Arthurian sword fights.

And yes, you can raise all attributes, sans SIZ.

[Lithium]

Alright this is good to know, so I should def push size if I am going for the 'Big foreign brute' type

[Lotherio]

Yes, get your SIZ now, and directly from current edition, if you're going combat type, yes, make sure Damage is 5, that will benefit you as a brute'ish type. That comes at the risk of dex and con, but they can be raised later, just assume you'll end up scarred and grizzled by the time you are veteran (any applied damage >= Con is a 'major wound').

[Lithium]

@lotherio Ok so I went with dex 9 and con 10... sounds like I might want to just sacrifice some app and boost his con...

[Lotherio]

@lithium That is a hard toss up. The combat system is pretty straight forward, not a lot of tricks and tactics. But a few things to bear in mind. If your character takes damage (prior to armor reduction) equal to or greater than SIZ, they have to see if the stumble and fall over. All armor reduced Dex, so falling down can be common. In actual combat, if you fall down, you have a -5 mod to your attack, your opponent has a +5 for higher ground. They could all out attack (+10) and movement to stand happens after that resolution (15 skill with higher ground and all out attack is a modified skill of 30, higher if passion inspired); meaning a good chance they land a blow. You could fall over and take no damage in good armor too.

Secondary to that, if the damage you receive after armor (and shield) reduces is equal too or greater than your CON, you take a major wound. We've reduced this (part of the balance of not including cultural mods in CG). In straight Pendragon you potentially lose attribute points (from the scar), but you also risk going unconscious, the system checks for this. In Pendragon, if you take a major wound, stay conscious but continue to fight, you basically risk aggravating the wound.

I figured more explanation could help determine which you prefer, both have value.

[Lithium]

@lotherio I appreciate that information a lot.

Thank you very much.

I have modified his stats some. Hopefully he lives to get to where he is more nimble and his wife can get him to improve his appearance!

[Auspice]

Personally, I am all for that high CON.

But that's just me! I am also not playing a combat character. I just wanna survive any possible illness rolls. >.>