Witcher MUSH Brainstorm (SPOILERS)

[Autumn]

While you have to mold the game around what you're prepared to have PCs be able to do, I'd be a little bit leery of setting up a situation where the people through whose eyes we came to know and appreciate the setting in the first place are presented as being (or having been) much more awesome than PCs can ever aspire to be.

Or, to put it slightly differently: if I come to game about the siege of Troy, it's probably because I want to play one of the Greek or Trojan heroes. I don't insist that I be able to play an Achilles-equivalent, but at least let me be someone who'll prompt Homer to spend some time on it when Achilles kills me, rather than one of those guys who get named as part of a list of the fifty Trojans he slaughters to get to Hector.

(Unless the game is a high-concept thing where playing the metaphorical spear carriers is the whole point. Like, I'd play an Amber game where the players were all ordinary members of the Watch and the focus is on dealing with the mythic superhuman deeds of the various royal family members with darkly humorous understatement. If that makes sense.)

[SG]

@FiranSurvivor said:

As for curbing Sorcerer/Sorceress power. I could imagine an organization just for that. With the revitalization of the Lodge at the end of the Witcher 3, I could see the Emperor imposing some kind of rule that they MUST be policed. Thus leading to a kind of police organization that specializes in dealing with unruly magic users. Kind of like the Templar from Dragon Age. Almost kind of another Witcher type concept, but instead of monsters they deal with Mages.

Don't the Redanian witch hunters already fill that role? They seemed to have been able to bring the lodge to its knees pretty handily in W3.

[FiranSurvivor]

@SG

@SG said:

@FiranSurvivor said:

As for curbing Sorcerer/Sorceress power. I could imagine an organization just for that. With the revitalization of the Lodge at the end of the Witcher 3, I could see the Emperor imposing some kind of rule that they MUST be policed. Thus leading to a kind of police organization that specializes in dealing with unruly magic users. Kind of like the Templar from Dragon Age. Almost kind of another Witcher type concept, but instead of monsters they deal with Mages.

Don't the Redanian witch hunters already fill that role? They seemed to have been able to bring the lodge to its knees pretty handily in W3.

They do. But this would be an organization that the Mages agree to allow to police them.

The witch hunters were less police and more... Gestapo SS.

[SG]

@FiranSurvivor

Fair enough. I think that the mages would want to internally police themselves rather than allow outsiders to dictate what they do. Or, if they did allow some sort of oversight committee, it would have to be toothless for them to agree to it, so that they could ignore them when it suited them. All of the mages in the witcher have been extremely arrogant.

[DarkDeleria]

I'm asking this, only cause while I've not played all the Witcher games out there (PC then XBOX/console), I'm intrigued. What game system are you thinking of using? I am someone that primarily used White Wolf's game system for a long long time, so if it's a new system--I'd like to make sure I'm familiar with it

[Sammi]

@Autumn The problem with the Witchers and the Sorceresses is that they're epic level characters. If all player characters start at that level, you're basically playing Exalted in a setting not designed for that. If PCs are split between normal people and Witchers/Sorceresses, there won't be any normal people left after a little while. If PCs start low and get to the level of Geralt and Triss, there will be a silly rate of power growth and a massive power disparity between dinosaurs and new PCs. All three of those possibilities are terrible.

[Arkandel]

@Sammi It depends on the implementation. I've seen oWoD MU* where having neonate and Elder vampires has worked out... for a while, at least.

[FiranSurvivor]

@DarkDeleria said:

I'm asking this, only cause while I've not played all the Witcher games out there (PC then XBOX/console), I'm intrigued. What game system are you thinking of using? I am someone that primarily used White Wolf's game system for a long long time, so if it's a new system--I'd like to make sure I'm familiar with it

I haven't played a good table top in... years. The last two MUSHes I have been on are The Reach and Firan. I have no idea what kind of game system it would use, obviously open to suggestions.

[Tempest]

@FiranSurvivor Who was FiranSurvivor on Firan?

[Autumn]

I tend to think that settings where equivalents to the viewpoint characters have to be extremely limited or else the whole setting collapses are maybe not the best choices for MU*.

Like, if someone had written a novel series from the viewpoints of what are in essence modern-day Antediluvians from VtM? I'd balk at making that game. If you let everybody play an Antediluvian the modern-day world will explode; and if everybody plays pawns of the Antediluvians, you're getting away from what the books are about, and a big chunk of your player base is, after all, mainly people who liked the books.

[FiranSurvivor]

@Tempest

No one on here knows and I ain't telling. Though I've left a clue or two around. Suffice to say on Firan I was no one of import. (Staff or big player)

[FiranSurvivor]

@Autumn said:

I tend to think that settings where equivalents to the viewpoint characters have to be extremely limited or else the whole setting collapses are maybe not the best choices for MU*.

Like, if someone had written a novel series from the viewpoints of what are in essence modern-day Antediluvians from VtM? I'd balk at making that game. If you let everybody play an Antediluvian the modern-day world will explode; and if everybody plays pawns of the Antediluvians, you're getting away from what the books are about, and a big chunk of your player base is, after all, mainly people who liked the books.

Do you think Star Wars MUs can work then? Cause isn't pretty much all of Star Wars through the lens of Jedi?

[Tempest]

@FiranSurvivor Sounds like a MYSTERY that needs solving!

[FiranSurvivor]

@Tempest said:

@FiranSurvivor Sounds like a MYSTERY that needs solving!

31513527

Theres your clue.

[Autumn]

@FiranSurvivor I'm not sure I agree with your premise: a lot of people were introduced to Star Wars via the first trilogy, in which people who weren't Jedi were pretty important to the story.

But -- granting the premise for the sake of argument -- the prequel trilogy shows us a picture of a galaxy where there are many more Jedi in existence than the number of players even a pretty optimistic MU* creator could hope to draw, and the galaxy doesn't seem to have exploded. Some of them are certainly more powerful than others, but I don't get the feeling that any of them are so powerful that they're playing a whole different game than the rest. (I have not dived into Expanded Universe material -- I'm just going by what I see on screen.)

Now, if we imagined an alternate universe Star Wars saga where we see everything from the perspective of Palpatine, a vastly powerful bad-guy Jedi who's also a secretive master manipulator who has the entire galactic government in his pocket -- that's a saga I'd hesitate to turn into a game.

[Tempest]

@FiranSurvivor said:

@Tempest said:

@FiranSurvivor Sounds like a MYSTERY that needs solving!

31513527

Theres your clue.

Is there a clue for dumb people?

[FiranSurvivor]

@Autumn

@Autumn said:

@FiranSurvivor I'm not sure I agree with your premise: a lot of people were introduced to Star Wars via the first trilogy, in which people who weren't Jedi were pretty important to the story.

But -- granting the premise for the sake of argument -- the prequel trilogy shows us a picture of a galaxy where there are many more Jedi in existence than the number of players even a pretty optimistic MU* creator could hope to draw, and the galaxy doesn't seem to have exploded. Some of them are certainly more powerful than others, but I don't get the feeling that any of them are so powerful that they're playing a whole different game than the rest. (I have not dived into Expanded Universe material -- I'm just going by what I see on screen.)

Now, if we imagined an alternate universe Star Wars saga where we see everything from the perspective of Palpatine, a vastly powerful bad-guy Jedi who's also a secretive master manipulator who has the entire galactic government in his pocket -- that's a saga I'd hesitate to turn into a game.

I certainly see what you are saying. Im cooking up an idea right now with a focus on Witchers (with room for other concepts) I'll post more after work.

And no clues for dumb people. Smarten up YA DUMMY. /jimnorton voice

[Sammi]

@Autumn People who aren't Luke Skywalker are important to Episodes IV - VI, but canonically Luke goes from a nobody to being the most powerful human in the known galaxy. He duels and defeats the previous most powerful human in the known galaxy, and the final reunion with his father only makes him a better Jedi. When the credits roll on Return of the Jedi, Luke is extremely powerful. Nobody in a Star Wars MU* ever gets to be Luke because that would just be silly.

Likewise, Dandelion, Zoltan, Iorveth, Vernon Roche, Ves, Shani, Henselt, Siegfried of Denesle and numerous others are all very meaningful to the plot of the games. But they can't fight armies, dragons, or the King of the Wild Hunt alone. They most certainly can't teleport, enslave dragons, or call down massive fiery cataclysms. I think the setting is hugely rich and would be tremendous fun to play in, but not so much with shenanigans that would make The Reach's Mage sphere jealous. Instead of teleportation, give people surprise mobility. Instead of dragon-control, they can have animal familiars. Nobody needs more than one fireball at a time.

[Autumn]

@Sammi said:

When the credits roll on Return of the Jedi, Luke is extremely powerful. Nobody in a Star Wars MU* ever gets to be Luke because that would just be silly.

Luke is a telekinetic master swordsman with unreliable precognitive and telepathic powers; if there were suddenly fifty or a hundred people who fit that description, the Star Wars universe wouldn't change all that much. The problems with allowing Luke Skywalker as a PC (which, historically speaking, several Star Wars MU* have done) are rooted in his importance to the plot of the saga, rather than in the capabilities of the character. Otherwise, prequel-era MU* would be unrecognizable as Star Wars.

I think the setting is hugely rich and would be tremendous fun to play in, but not so much with shenanigans that would make The Reach's Mage sphere jealous. Instead of teleportation, give people surprise mobility. Instead of dragon-control, they can have animal familiars.

Saying that I don't think settings where the viewpoint characters are far above the power level PCs are permitted to achieve are the best choices for MU* is not the same thing as saying I don't think they could be fun to play in. And some settings where PCs can be as powerful as the viewpoint would probably make for terrible games.

[Sammi]

@Autumn said:

Luke is a telekinetic master swordsman with unreliable precognitive and telepathic powers; if there were suddenly fifty or a hundred people who fit that description, the Star Wars universe wouldn't change all that much.

How many such people did it take to destroy the Republic and erect the Empire? Mostly two, with supporting help from three or four others (and that's being generous and calling Greivous a person). Fifty Skywalkers? Nevermind rebuilding the Jedi Academy. They would have a galaxy to conquer.

The problems with allowing Luke Skywalker as a PC (which, historically speaking, several Star Wars MU* have done)

Poor decisions have been made. See also: The Reach's Mage sphere.

Saying that I don't think settings where the viewpoint characters are far above the power level PCs are permitted to achieve are the best choices for MU* is not the same thing as saying I don't think they could be fun to play in. And some settings where PCs can be as powerful as the viewpoint would probably make for terrible games.

That's most video games. And books. And movies. And RPG settings that get novels set in them (hello, Drizzt and Elminster). Really, any setting that nerds get passionate enough about to want to play in.