Big city grids - likes and dislikes
-
I am a big proponent of grids, but also the ability to create temp rooms/use anywhere rooms as needed to me the grid is what creates a connection to the game at large and a reason my character cares about the plots that don't effect him personally.
Real example on a game a lot of my character's scenes took place in and around this one bar, he was a gang member out mainly for himself (it was a WoD game so such a character fit) during a plot that bar got threatened and my character participated to save it. It mattered to him because that bar is important. Now lets say instead of on grid those scenes happened in an anywhere room, odds are different bars would be posed and set as different people set each scene also it is likely the plot would have threatened some other location as well in a different anywhere room, so why would I care, it likely would end up like most prps as something I played in once and forget completely by the next week or two tops. Instead I can remember details of this one years after the fact because it was important to the character.
One of the big complaints about mushes is people basically using them as private sandboxes and without a grid I can only see that being intensified. -
A lot of the role of a grid in providing a common point of reference, and a shared world to play in, and familiar scene backdrops, can probably be replaced by a solid wiki, maps, pictures, etc. Arranging these reference points in a conventional grid isn't mandatory.
I am used to grids, and I like them just fine, but I would love to see different approaches.
-
You don’t have to make it big, but make it FEEL big. Use big terms, describe how that area not just looks but what it evokes.
I absolutely adored Hanuted Memory’s grid, which was mostly four blocks per room, because it felt right, because the grid creator was intimately familiar with Vienna and also a decent writer. Somehow I never was confused where in the grid I was, probably because the map and naming convention helped too.
-
@faraday said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
I disagree though about the lack of spontaneous encounters. I don't really see a practical difference between wandering to "Big City - Sleazy Strip" on the grid and doing
scene/start Big City - Sleazy Strip=public. Both can park your character in the Sleazy Strip with a hint (in the case of a grid) or an expressed intent (in the case of the scene system) of being open to RP in that location.There might not be a code difference but to me there is a huge psychological one. If it is a spot on grid and I am feeling like RP I will wander to the hangout and ask if people mind if i join. I would never do this for a scene in a creative room even if it was set public because if the people wanted me there they would invite me and it is their place since they just made it. Where on grid to me is more like hanging out in an RL public space more of an implied hey we are hanging out.
-
@thatguythere said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
I would never do this for a scene in a creative room even if it was set public because if the people wanted me there they would invite me and it is their place since they just made it. Where on grid to me is more like hanging out in an RL public space more of an implied hey we are hanging out.
:helpless shrug: I don't disagree with you, but I also don't know how to help with that. I mean, the instructions say a scene marked as 'Open' has been expressly marked by the creators as being open to anyone joining via scene/join. So the impression they don't want you joining is just... not what the system does. The whole point of marking a scene open or private is precisely to avoid the problem your'e describing where you don't know if you're welcome or not.
On the flip side, I know a lot of people who are just as timid about joining an ongoing scene even when it's in a public bar or hangout on a grid. Not without reason either, as I've personally been on the receiving end of being turned away with "we've already got something going on here, do you mind?" for scenes in grid rooms before. (Not private residences either.)
But hey, it's a new system and it's currently only really core on Ares games. I understand people being skeptical about it. Either it'll catch on or it won't. It certainly doesn't stop you from making a grid.
-
@bad-at-lurking said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
I do enjoy exploring a grid, but generally, I only do it once. And nobody else ever goes to that cool room with the ocean overlook unless they decide to build a house there.
Those are the exactly rooms I use in a grid the most, all the times when someone is like where should we RP, those are the rooms I toss out as suggestions if they fit the characters involved at all.
-
@faraday said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
, but I also don't know how to help with that. I mean, the instructions say a scene marked as 'Open' has been expressly marked by the creators as being open to anyone joining via scene/join. So the impression they don't want you joining is just... not what the system does. The whole point of marking a scene open or private is precisely to avoid the problem your'e describing where you don't know if you're welcome or not.
For me there is literally (and i mean real literally not common usage fake literally) nothing that could be done to help it. If someone creates a space for a scene I would not feel welcome unless specifically invited by them. I realize this is not universal nor anything beyond a personal issue but yes i would rather not get RP and wander off and do something else then barge into someone else's space. No amount of policies or or mentioning that scenes marked public are open to all can change the way I feel. Which is what this boils done to it is a people issue not a code issue at least for me.
However the grid is no one person's space (with the obvious exceptions of private builds) since it was created by a staffer or helper for the good of the game so it doesn't cause my issue. -
@faraday said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
@sunny - For the record, I don't think anybody is stupid for liking a grid, I just honestly don't understand it. I accept it as a preference, I just don't get why it matters how you get to a scene. It's like somebody speaking a foreign language to me - it just doesn't compute. If that failure to grok has ever unintentionally come across as intolerant, my apologies.
I can explain this one! Yay!
The how is important because it helps make the world feel /real/, at least for some. A character moving through streets makes it feel like the character is actually /there/ on that street, in that environment. It builds a shared environmental continuity.
If all you do is port into scene rooms, then there is no sense of continuity, there is no sense of that place actually /existing/ which is big for some people to get into the characters and the setting more.
It's not really a right way wrong way thing, just one of those things that people are going to have to make up their minds for themselves on.
I personally hate RP rooms. I feel they close off that RP to outside influence. They feel private and not welcoming to people.
If I am RP'ing on the grid in a public room, I should by default be willing to have others involve themselves in the RP.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
-
@lithium said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
The how is important because it helps make the world feel /real/, at least for some
I get that as a preference thing. What I'm saying is it doesn't resonate with me. I don't know if it's because I'm a coder and I automatically see behind the curtain on everything, or if it's just how my brain is wired or what, but I feel no immersion while MUSHing. So it's like trying to explain color to somebody who's color blind. I just don't get it. Like the folks who like an IC message system. I understand those people exist, but I don't grok that either. Just use pages or mail. I don't get how it makes a difference.
But yes, to OP's point - it absolutely unequivocally does make a difference to some segment of the MU population.
ETA since I missed a reply...
@thatguythere said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
grid is no one person's space (with the obvious exceptions of private builds) since it was created by a staffer or helper for the good of the game so it doesn't cause my issue.
I respect that. My personal hangup is the opposite. I would never join a public scene on grid without either an invitation or an awkward "hey mind if I join" page. But if somebody expressly says "Sure come on down" via the Open tag then I wouldn't feel that same issue. Everybody's different. No system - neither a grid nor a scenesys can please everyone.
-
@faraday said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
@lithium said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
The how is important because it helps make the world feel /real/, at least for some
I get that as a preference thing. What I'm saying is it doesn't resonate with me. I don't know if it's because I'm a coder and I automatically see behind the curtain on everything, or if it's just how my brain is wired or what, but I feel no immersion while MUSHing. So it's like trying to explain color to somebody who's color blind. I just don't get it. Like the folks who like an IC message system. I understand those people exist, but I don't grok that either. Just use pages or mail. I don't get how it makes a difference.
But yes, to OP's point - it absolutely unequivocally does make a difference to some segment of the MU population.
I've been thinking about this particular point all day, and it's one of those things that's so hard to define that I think it merits it's own thread where I can talk about maybe some aspects that might make it more accessible to people that don't feel that way. And just from the context of even people that don't care about it at all can maybe see the minor easy ways to implement around it rather than worrying about the massive manpower intensive design choices (like creating huge grids).
some fucking idiot who people only like because he's good at taking credit for the work of everyone under him, just like every other fucking L&L headwiz.
-
@thatguythere said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
@bad-at-lurking said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
I do enjoy exploring a grid, but generally, I only do it once. And nobody else ever goes to that cool room with the ocean overlook unless they decide to build a house there.
Those are the exactly rooms I use in a grid the most, all the times when someone is like where should we RP, those are the rooms I toss out as suggestions if they fit the characters involved at all.
Yeah, this is very true for me also.
I think when grids are done well, those 'special' rooms can have a tremendous impact on one's experience as a player. Learning the layout of a big grid, knowing its secrets and interesting nooks and crannies, is not only enjoyable for its own sake, but can often drive certain fun in RP. Finding secrets and sharing them. I'm pretty sure this all links strongly into the Bartle-Explorer angle, in that there's just a pure sense of joy of not only discovering, but then sharing that discovery, as a bonding experience.
Thinking on it, years (decades in some cases) out, I can still remember the following (and many more) pretty vividly:
-
a secret room on a Pern game (a cave through a waterfall) that wasn't a faction secret or anything, you just had to read the desc to guess the exit name. It was a 'common' secret but taking new people there was always an interesting social experience.
-
My first nightclub on a WoD game. Stereotypical & lame, but it was mine, and I was proud of the details I included (from the places to the usable catwalks).
-
Any number of slightly out-of-the-way, special, restricted, unique, simply flavorful, etc places on Firan. The Palace balcony, a favorite fishing pond, any of the private cabins out in the wilderness, the 2nd floor entrance of the Air Force tower (just for the sheer novelty of the flight code), 'the tree', etc. Also the actual awe at seeing somewhere like Perindra for the first time.
-
My family's planet & residence on 5th World. My experience on that game was 'meh' on the whole, but our planet was extremely unique and I was really proud of some of the descs I did for it, just for the unique sci-fi flavor.
I think this must get into crazy brain stuff like sense memory, because not only can I recall these places, but I can remember details of the scenes I had at some of them that I couldn't possibly match in equal detail for other scenes I had on those games at the same time with the same characters. I can remember some of this stuff better than RP I've had in the last few months.
-
-
@apos For me, the perfect mix is having a meetme command, where people don't /have/ to walk the grid and get lost, they can just meet up with their friends for RP or whatever.
-
What do you guys think about grid descs that are non-static?
I.e changes depending on the time of day and/or season and/or weather, assuming that is part of the game code?
Or has the occasional automatic @emit like 'A cold breeze whispers through the alleyway.' or 'Something splashes in the water amidst the reeds.' or the like.
-
Love. So much love. I miss ambiance emits being a thing SO much.
-
@kay It's a great idea. Maybe if there was a way to turn the ambient 'noise' off when a scene is running to cut down on the updates and spare the log?
-
@runescryer said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:
@kay It's a great idea. Maybe if there was a way to turn the ambient 'noise' off when a scene is running to cut down on the updates and spare the log?
Having a switch for it sounds logical to me! I am sure there's some easy way to make that happen.
-
@kay Maybe a +scene script that turns of the room's ambient noise feature and starts up an autologger?
-
@runescryer I'm so not used to autologgers, though I know they're all the rage these days. I was thinking more like a character on/off switch, like how you set your @adesc or that you want to see ansi or the like. That way also players that don't want ambient noises at all can switch them off always. (Disclaimer: am not a coder)
-
@runescryer Easiest thing to do would be to have it be an opt in or opt out. Like the command that ran the ambiance was actually a pemit rather than an @remit, and the @pemit checked to see if the target in that particular room had the opt in or opt out flag on.
-
@kay I'm not a coder, either
And while I do like autologgers, IMO they're most useful if a game has an activity requirement. Since this is an OC game you're proposing, though, activity requirements probably won't be a thing.
