What drew you to MU*?
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I was super younger when I started at it must've been 1993. I somehow found some sort of building mu**? It wasn't RP based, just kind of like various lands where could build things?
From that I found a cool one called WindsMARE. Also wasn't RP, but it was an adventure game and I dug that a lot. So I went to see what else I could find and stumbled upon SNW.
I played SNW for a few years and then peaced out of mu** for a good 15 years! One day I just was curious if the hobby even still existed and found a pretty active Trek Mu after some searching and I guess I've been back in the hobby for about 2 years now?
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@tinuviel said in What drew you to MU*?:
@faraday said in What drew you to MU*?:
The on-demand access to entertainment 24/7 is part of what sets it apart from other forms of online RPGs.
I've noticed, of late (ie the last... five or so years?), that the demand part of 'on-demand' seems to be more and more at the forefront of considerations for both players and game-runner-designers. Especially in the form of 'this game has to last forever because I want to keep doing this specific thing forever.' Is this sort of open-ended-sandboxy-thing something we should be encouraging, or working away from?
I'd just say that the #1 consideration of most people in the hobby is that their time is respected, and they are extremely averse to investing it anywhere where they think that won't be the case.
some fucking idiot who people only like because he's good at taking credit for the work of everyone under him, just like every other fucking L&L headwiz.
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@apos said in What drew you to MU*?:
@tinuviel said in What drew you to MU*?:
@faraday said in What drew you to MU*?:
The on-demand access to entertainment 24/7 is part of what sets it apart from other forms of online RPGs.
I've noticed, of late (ie the last... five or so years?), that the demand part of 'on-demand' seems to be more and more at the forefront of considerations for both players and game-runner-designers. Especially in the form of 'this game has to last forever because I want to keep doing this specific thing forever.' Is this sort of open-ended-sandboxy-thing something we should be encouraging, or working away from?
I'd just say that the #1 consideration of most people in the hobby is that their time is respected, and they are extremely averse to investing it anywhere where they think that won't be the case.
True. But at the same time I think the definition of "respected time" for some, at least, has switched from a more "be involved in a wonderful story and be able to spend my time involved as much as I like" to a sort of "I've invested all of this time in this one character, so if you do anything to curtail my ability to do what I want you're wrong."
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I do have to say that one of my most satisfying character arcs was on PernMUSH, over the course of about,,, 15 years? 17? Something like that. He went from a young man to a battle-scarred veteran in almost real time. I find it a shame that current games rarely ever last that long.
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@paris said in What drew you to MU*?:
I find it a shame that current games rarely ever last that long.
Most folks, especially those keen to actually run a game, don't have the energy to run a game for that long. And I'd, personally, much rather a game come to a conclusion than just fizzle out.
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Alas!
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I've been involved in IRC roleplay since I was about 16 years old. I spent years playing on play by email games and forum games as well. I started RPing because I love to tell stories. I have since I first started playing with Barbies and acting out elaborate fantasy scenarios with them. I guess I never really grew out of playing pretend, but until I discovered the internet, it was all just inside my head or written down in these notebooks that I would FILL with world-building notes.
Then I discovered people telling stories on IRC and the rest is history. It's been twenty years now. I've taken breaks here and there for sometimes years at a time, but I always come back because there are always stories that I want to tell, characters that I want to explore.
I found MUs thanks to my best friend who knew I needed an outlet and thought this could be a good one. And it absolutely has been, no matter what has happened. I've met some wonderful people. I met my partner. I've told some stories that have been just beautiful. While some might find it terrifying to think of moving into a MU without any friends, I find that exciting. New people mean new stories to tell. That's all that this is about for me.
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@tinuviel said in What drew you to MU*?:
I've noticed, of late (ie the last... five or so years?), that the demand part of 'on-demand' seems to be more and more at the forefront of considerations for both players and game-runner-designers. Especially in the form of 'this game has to last forever because I want to keep doing this specific thing forever.' Is this sort of open-ended-sandboxy-thing something we should be encouraging, or working away from?
I don't know - I haven't seen that, personally. I think folks expecting their game to go on forever and ever aren't being very realistic. Most games just don't last like that. But at the same time, there's such an investment in building a game that people don't want it to just fizzle out in a couple months. So - a happy middle ground, I guess, is what I think people should shoot for? If I can get 2 years out of a game (either as a player or as a runner) I'm happy.
What I meant by on-demand was that if people can't log in and find RP, they just won't log in. There are too many competing forms of entertainment for the majority of people to sit there twiddling their thumbs looking at an empty who list night after night. If I want to wait days between activity, I can do PBP.
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@faraday said in What drew you to MU*?:
I think folks expecting their game to go on forever and ever aren't being very realistic.
When it comes to the staff/authors of the game it's less about expecting the game to last forever, but more about not planning for an ending. Players, definitely, seem to be edging more and more towards the 'my character needs to be here forever so this game needs to be here forever' camp. Not all of them, obviously, but a number notable enough that I've seen it. And usually I don't give a damn about other people unless they're paying me money.
I know what you meant about on-demand, I was mostly using it as a jumping-off point. I think the fact that nearly every other source of entertainment is equally as capable of instant gratification, and the barrier to entry for things is so much lower with many being ostensibly free (specifically MMOs and their ilk) or capable of delivering many various genres of entertainment (like your Netflixes and such) that when people feel the desire to invest deeply in something, such as a character, they demand that they be allowed to do so for as long as they want.
Every other entertainment source has an end. A film ends, a book ends. The only thing I can really relate it to is perhaps a long-running television show that refuses to end in spite of all evidence that it should. Stories end, and so should games. And that's something players should have on their list of things to expect right out of the gate.
He/Him
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TL;DR I used to read allll the Fantasy novels when I was a teenager. Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, Drizz't, and all that.
MUDding and then MUSHing was sort of like getting to 'play' in one of those worlds.
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@tinuviel said in What drew you to MU*?:
Every other entertainment source has an end. A film ends, a book ends. The only thing I can really relate it to is perhaps a long-running television show that refuses to end in spite of all evidence that it should. Stories end, and so should games. And that's something players should have on their list of things to expect right out of the gate.
Yes, but I think that "long-running TV series" is exactly the mental model that people come to MUSHes with. Many games are literally based on TV shows.
Some games embrace the model outright with "arcs" and "seasons" but when you strip a MU down and look at the basic underpinnings... they're all pretty much exactly like nighttime TV dramas, right down to "OMG what else could possibly happen to this poor guy" (re: lead character) and "jump the shark" story moments when the storytellers start to run out of good ideas.So the fact that game-runners don't plan for an ending and people invested in characters don't want them to leave the "show" seems perfectly understandable and natural to me. It's exactly how most folks approach their TV shows.
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@faraday said in What drew you to MU*?:
So the fact that game-runners don't plan for an ending and people invested in characters don't want them to leave the "show" seems perfectly understandable and natural to me.
It might be perfectly understandable and natural, but that doesn't make it sensible. If people are seriously invested in something it makes more sense, at least to me, for that investment to come with a payoff at the end. A finale rather than a cancellation, if you will.
He/Him
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@tinuviel
I think this is a great point, though maybe one for another thread. A lot of it depends on player temperament. I'm someone who just likes the idea that I'm telling a story that'll have an end, and that's probably mostly due to positive experiences with close-ended projects. I'm coming off involvement in an alpha-testing phase of a game a friend of mine ran as a live campaign, and it's been incredibly rewarding to play largely because it was compressed character development that I knew would have a pay-off of some kind. It sucks to come in during the middle of end of something like that, though, and short, tight campaigns are bad if you're idle for even a week, so it has its pros and cons. -
@three-eyed-crow said in What drew you to MU*?:
so it has its pros and cons.
Truth, as everything does. But you're right, this is probably better served in another thread that I cbf making.
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@tinuviel said in What drew you to MU*?:
It might be perfectly understandable and natural, but that doesn't make it sensible. If people are seriously invested in something it makes more sense, at least to me, for that investment to come with a payoff at the end. A finale rather than a cancellation, if you will.
Well I can't really disagree with the logic of it, but given that even professional TV-show-runners can't be bothered to adopt this sensible model ("I've got a great idea guys! Let's end our low-rated show season on a CLIFFHANGER!"), I hold out no hope for the average MU runner to plan for a limited series run. Everybody wants to be the umpteen-season CSI or Grey's Anatomy. Nobody wants to plan for only getting one season.
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@faraday said in What drew you to MU*?:
I hold out no hope for the average MU runner to plan for a limited series run.
Oh, naturally. It's a pipedream nestled in a fantasy snugly wrapped up in a cocoon of nevergonnahappen. But it's still pretty.
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I love that we are creating a story, that my thread is just one of them, that other's characters can impact that story, and surprise me. I love that it can be a community, that I met some close friends (and my husband) through the hobby. It broadens the world, makes me speak to people I never would have (I found out someone I liked voted for trump, for example).
The people. The story. In short.
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I was extremely young so I couldnt tell you exactly what it was except that I was looking for games online and the search index I had included Achaea and while it was difficult at first, the challenge of reading and typing things quickly to potentially stay alive was thrilling. I shifted from MUDs to MUSHes because to an extent MUDs are less detailed in roleplay. I am ome of those people that eat up the details, most MUD RPers tend to just have 1-2 sentences of "movement" and some dialogue.
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Me getting into mushing was a complete accident. When I was young I loved the cartoon gargoyles. We're talking first season. And at the end of one episode it said to go on IRC and join the gargoyles chat room! So I used Homer (D'oh!) to get to that....entirely empty room. Eventually a guy joined and was like "no one is in here but we sometimes do gargoyles RP in this DnD room wanna come?" And I was all of thirteen...maybe fourteen and like "I don't know what any of that means but okay!"
And it was...god what was that old comic, elf only inn? It was just like that. I didn't know it was bad, one crazy guy running both the heroes and the villains, but I LOVED the collaborative storytelling aspect and was hooked.
I drifted away from it later high school years, but kept in contact with some of the friends I made there. My best friend emailed me when I was in college to say they were all hanging out at a place called Project Inifinity and I should make a character. I knew very little about superheroes, so I made the most cliched Mary Sue Irish red head imaginable. With fire powers. Who was also half alien because why not. It was bad. But I met more friends and then got dragged to a dice DnD game and thankfully never got stuck in the dumpster fire that Wod seems to be and I stuck with the hobby for...I think ten years? Took a long break then got an email from someone way back in the day while made me nostalgic for the creativity outlet.
I find in my old age I don't have the tolerance for drama that I used to, but I still really love telling stories with people.
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Like @Pyrephox and @Three-Eyed-Crow and @Tinuviel and @faraday all mentioned, for me it's the free, persistent, dynamic, multiplayer, real-time, collaborative roleplay, where your character can have an impact on the world around them (and be impacted on it in turn) in an unlimited number of ways. There's also the fact that I write a whole heck of a lot better than I speak, and writing gives me time to edit on the fly, which is very nice. It's also more immersive than tabletop RP for me.
